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: Prepaid Absent Player - Blind off & points  ( 8837 )
NYYank
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« : Jun 06, 2007 at 17:08 »

Hi guys, new to the forum but I have gathered alot of great information here. Thanks for all of it.

Here is my situation. Our league (16 to 20 players) voted to allow a player that is knowingly not going to be able to attend one of our monthly tournaments to pre-pay for the buy-in ($25.00; $18 goes to that nights payout and $7 to TOC). I am the TD and trying to clarify our complete rule for this situation and make it as simple as possible. To eliminate the hassle of dealing to an empty seat, dealing for the absent player and having to put the blinds in for them, I proposed to the league that we just figure out approximately what level the player would be blinded off and award points for where they would finish at that time. To eliminate confusion to exactly when the absent player would be blinded off I suggested we set it for the end of that blind level. There would not be any chips in play for the absent player and nothing would be dealt to the empty seat. Basically the idea when it was brought up was so a person could still get points toward the TOC if they were unable to attend and it would put more money in the mothly and year end payout. We have a good mixture of serious players who will try to make every tournament and a few novices that just want to play and learn. I don't feel that this will be something that happens alot, but the option is there if someone wants it. I have only received feedback from a couple players so far and its 50/50 on approval. Everybody agrees that dead money in the payout is good. Has anybody ever had anything set up like this or not? If a player is going to be late they will dealt to and blinded off normally.

Thank you,
NYYank
austin5string
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« #1 : Jun 06, 2007 at 17:17 »

I think if you're going to allow them to buy in early, you should just deal with the hassle of dealing them and blinding them off.  Let the chips fall where they may, so to speak.  If the absent player places, then give 'em whatever points they're due.  If not, so be it.  But I think to arbitrarily decide that a player would have finished in a certain place is a mistake.

Dude is definitely weird.. If it's a bot, it's a pretty good one..  If it's a person, it's a pretty bad one.. LOL
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #2 : Jun 06, 2007 at 18:47 »

Quote
Everybody agrees that dead money in the payout is good.

That's a surprise.

In my opinion, to run an ethical tournament, you have exactly two options:
- Return their money and they get no points, or
- Blind them off until all of their chips are gone.

Anything else is unfair and in my opinion stealing.  How can you estimate where they would've finished?  There are too many factors that come into play.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
ryder such as
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« #3 : Jun 06, 2007 at 18:49 »

I agree wholeheartedly with a5s here. the player paid for a spot, and is entitled to be blinded off. they still get cards on every hand, and they are auto-folded. when they get blinded out, they get blinded out. whomever they finish in front of, they get higher points than. and it also provided the player the opportunity to show up late, if possible, and still have some chips left. what you are proposing is that a player can be absent, and still pay a full buy in and recieve a PRESET AMOUNT OF POINTS. thats the quivalent of the yankees saying we spent 250 million on offense this year, which equals about 4.2 runs a game. so we wont bother to hit, we will just have our defense try to keep you under 4 runs to claim a win.

Exalted Grand Marshall
MTPL since 2006

R-E-A-D-A-B-O-ohkay!!!!

it's not my fault.... my parents did a TON of drugs when I was conceived
austin5string
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« #4 : Jun 06, 2007 at 18:54 »

Not to mention the fact that -- what if the person THOUGHT they weren't going to make it, but they were able to show up an hour late.  You need to have their chips on the table ready to go for them if they do show up.

Dude is definitely weird.. If it's a bot, it's a pretty good one..  If it's a person, it's a pretty bad one.. LOL
ChrisChip10
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I think, therefore I bet.


« #5 : Jun 06, 2007 at 19:42 »

Who does the dealing for the absent player??

I think, therefore, I bet
You betta you betta you bet!

Chris
NYYank
Player
**
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« #6 : Jun 06, 2007 at 21:01 »

The main purpose of my proposed idea was to eliminate misdeals and to keep the pace of the game going faster. Even during games when a player takes a break and has a stack of chips in front of their empty chair some of the players when they deal always tend to miss that seat. Every idea that we've kicked around seams to have just as many pros as it does cons. That is why I decided to post on here and get a Little more input. This site has been a great source of information.
keith
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« #7 : Jun 06, 2007 at 21:22 »

I agree with consensus.  It's worth the 'hassle' if they're paying money into a pool that they have potential to win from.
NYYank
Player
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« #8 : Jun 06, 2007 at 21:50 »

What do you do if all players fold, including the small blind? Do you fold the absent players cards and leave the chips in the pot for the next round or do the chips get awarded to the absent player? I don't see this happening unless the small blind isn't paying attention and folds when just a raise would automatically win them the pot.

Also if everyone folds and the small blind just calls, do you immediatley fold the absent players cards and award the chips to the small blind?
Midnight Rose
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« #9 : Jun 06, 2007 at 22:17 »

What do you do if all players fold, including the small blind? Do you fold the absent players cards and leave the chips in the pot for the next round or do the chips get awarded to the absent player?

First, you smack the small blind for being too stoopit to be seated at your table.

Then, you push the chips into the absent player's stack.

Quote
Also if everyone folds and the small blind just calls, do you immediatley fold the absent players cards and award the chips to the small blind?

First, you smack the small blind for being too stoopit to be seated at your table...
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #10 : Jun 06, 2007 at 22:44 »

The main purpose of my proposed idea was to eliminate misdeals and to keep the pace of the game going faster.

What a better way to make play go faster than have one player at the table that you can immediately muck.  No waiting on them. No having to call time.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #11 : Jun 06, 2007 at 22:47 »

What do you do if all players fold, including the small blind? Do you fold the absent players cards and leave the chips in the pot for the next round or do the chips get awarded to the absent player? I don't see this happening unless the small blind isn't paying attention and folds when just a raise would automatically win them the pot.

Also if everyone folds and the small blind just calls, do you immediatley fold the absent players cards and award the chips to the small blind?

The absent player's hand is folded after the deal and before any action happens, just as if he was in the can.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
Jambine
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My Passion


« #12 : Jun 06, 2007 at 22:47 »

The main purpose of my proposed idea was to eliminate misdeals and to keep the pace of the game going faster.

What a better way to make play go faster than have one player at the table that you can immediately muck.  No waiting on them. No having to call time.
And don’t forget me.  I also paid in advance AND I showed up on time. 
I want that dead money in the pot.

Cash game at Three Creek Ranch
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #13 : Jun 06, 2007 at 22:48 »

What do you do if all players fold, including the small blind? Do you fold the absent players cards and leave the chips in the pot for the next round or do the chips get awarded to the absent player?

First, you smack the small blind for being too stoopit to be seated at your table.

Then, you push the chips into the absent player's stack.

Quote
Also if everyone folds and the small blind just calls, do you immediatley fold the absent players cards and award the chips to the small blind?

First, you smack the small blind for being too stoopit to be seated at your table...

Rose, you just lost 1 Gobbs buck for not folding the absent player after the deal...sheesh.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #14 : Jun 06, 2007 at 22:50 »

Even during games when a player takes a break and has a stack of chips in front of their empty chair some of the players when they deal always tend to miss that seat.

So, you've just posted a reason why your players need to learn how to pay attention when dealing.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
ryder such as
MTPL
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« #15 : Jun 06, 2007 at 22:58 »

What do you do if all players fold, including the small blind? Do you fold the absent players cards and leave the chips in the pot for the next round or do the chips get awarded to the absent player?

First, you smack the small blind for being too stoopit to be seated at your table.

Then, you push the chips into the absent player's stack.

Quote
Also if everyone folds and the small blind just calls, do you immediatley fold the absent players cards and award the chips to the small blind?

First, you smack the small blind for being too stoopit to be seated at your table...

Rose, you just lost 1 Gobbs buck for not folding the absent player after the deal...sheesh.

maybe shes stuck in online mode?

Exalted Grand Marshall
MTPL since 2006

R-E-A-D-A-B-O-ohkay!!!!

it's not my fault.... my parents did a TON of drugs when I was conceived
Midnight Rose
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« #16 : Jun 06, 2007 at 23:08 »

Quote from: Dr. Neau
Quote from: Midnight Rose, DDS
First, you smack the small blind for being too stoopit to be seated at your table...

Rose, you just lost 1 Gobbs buck for not folding the absent player after the deal...sheesh.

I'll get over it.

Quote from: ryder8  tm
maybe shes stuck in online mode?

Nah, she just wants to smack up some dhumbutts.
NYYank
Player
**
: 6


« #17 : Jun 06, 2007 at 23:23 »

Our next tournament is this Friday, so it will be interesting to see how this works because we have one player that will be absent and wants to buy in. The early rounds won't be bad, but I know a few players will be alot more aggressive and just be trying to steal the absent blinds in the later rounds
Kyle Smith
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« #18 : Jun 07, 2007 at 07:50 »

We had a player intentionally not show up after he had payed just to see what happened.  He got 8th out of thirteen, and actually won quite a few hands.  Everyone folded including the small blind on one hand, that particular small blind player has yet to stop hearing about it.  When we finally had the absent guy on the felt and going all in because of the blinds his cards kept winning pots.  I have the privilege of saying I got beat by a guy who wasn't there, as I finished 9th.

"I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the fear." -- Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #19 : Jun 07, 2007 at 08:23 »

We had a player intentionally not show up after he had payed just to see what happened.  He got 8th out of thirteen, and actually won quite a few hands.  Everyone folded including the small blind on one hand, that particular small blind player has yet to stop hearing about it.  When we finally had the absent guy on the felt and going all in because of the blinds his cards kept winning pots.  I have the privilege of saying I got beat by a guy who wasn't there, as I finished 9th.

Smith, if you are following the rules, an absent player cannot win a hand.  Their hand is supposed to be folded immediately after the deal.

You need to be at your seat to play your hand.
You have to play your hand to win a hand.
Therefore, you cannot win a hand if you are not at your seat.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
DCP
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Jackets in '09! (yeah, right)


« #20 : Jun 07, 2007 at 09:46 »

Quote from: Dr. Neau
Smith, if you are following the rules, an absent player cannot win a hand.  Their hand is supposed to be folded immediately after the deal.

You need to be at your seat to play your hand.
You have to play your hand to win a hand.
Therefore, you cannot win a hand if you are not at your seat.

Hey thought I would add a little comment to this thread.

We have a couple at our home game that recently had a baby. It is to the point right now where only one can come play, but both want points so they both buy in, one plays their stack and the other blinds off. If the first player busts out, then they hurry home so the 2nd player can play (assuming they have chips left).

Anyway, the one thing we do when blinding out an absent player is we make known that an absent player cannot bust out of the tourney by blinding out. When they post their final chips on a blind, they are treated as "all in" and their cards are live...whether they have pocket aces or 72o. If they win, they get the pot, and blinding continues until the absent player is facing an all-in situation again.

Essentially treat them like they were there but left early. It is not a big deal to muck every hand for an absent player. If nothing else, it is easy chips, especially if they are to your left.

EDIT: I forgot to make my point

Whatever you decide to do, make sure you have it written in your rules so the situation can be handled the same should it arise again. Whether you blind off until dead, treat the last chip as all-in, it doesn't matter really, as long as it is always the same. One thing's for sure, though. They should have chips on the table.
« : Jun 07, 2007 at 10:12 DCP »

Greg - Just another poker player in Louisiana - P* deviantla
Dark City Poker League - Shreveport, LA
Kyle Smith
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« #21 : Jun 07, 2007 at 10:15 »




Smith, if you are following the rules, an absent player cannot win a hand.  Their hand is supposed to be folded immediately after the deal.

We were following the rules, our rules.  At the time we didn't have any rule regarding absent players, so we played it.
« : Jun 07, 2007 at 10:21 smithwesson79 »

"I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the fear." -- Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #22 : Jun 07, 2007 at 10:31 »




Smith, if you are following the rules, an absent player cannot win a hand.  Their hand is supposed to be folded immediately after the deal.

We were following the rules, our rules.  At the time we didn't have any rule regarding absent players, so we played it.

Sorry, let me elaborate.

If you are following the generally accepted rules of tournament poker...

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
spade117
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« #23 : Jun 07, 2007 at 14:24 »

They may have gotten the idea that you treat an absent all-in as live from full-tilt. I see that happen there all the time. But yes, normally, if a player is not at their seat when the final card has been dealt, that hand should be mucked immediately.


As for the person buying in and not showing, the chips are paid for and should not leave the table until they are blinded out. It can be used as a learning point that in tournaments you deal to chip stacks, not players.

Is it that big of a deal that someone has to deal for an absent player? I know alot of the people that come to this site are new, but that seems like an idiotic thing to complain about to me. Must be why I agree with Gobbs 99% of the time.

♠ Spade ♠

I may not like what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

The bible is the best selling fiction book of all time.
ky70
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« #24 : Jun 07, 2007 at 14:28 »

Nothing wrong at all if you choose NOT to deal cards to the empty seat for a player that has not yet arrived (I've seen rules that say you should deal to empty seats and rules that say you shouldn't).  IMO it's not a necessity and if you have it as part of your house rules, it shouldn't be a problem.  Personally, I do not like the idea of having chips on the table for a player that you know isn't coming.


(Warning...this is where it gets long)

You may want to consider something similar to what I do for my league.  My league collects a "league fee" from each player before each game and at the end of the season, the collected league fees are paid  to the top 3 spots.  The system that appears below has stabilized attendance and my current season is averaging 2 more players per game (9+/game) than the previous season (slightly less than 7/game).

Our setup is that we have league night once a month and play 2 tournament games on league night.  Our 14 game league season is spread over 7 months.  We take the best 8 results out of 14 games for each player's points and this does help a player that can only make 8 games (as an example) but there was a real concern that a player who could only make 8 games (example) has no real shot to finish in the money at season's end.  The "radical" solution was to allow for missed games to be replaced with a player's average score from actual played games (for the entire season).  Here is my missed game section from my league website:

•Missed Games Replacement
o Any player who missed any games will be allowed to replace those missed games by applying their game's played average to a missed game. So a player would be able to use their average score based on actual games played to replace missed games.

o Missed games can be replaced on a 1 to 1 ratio. A player would be allowed to replace 1 missed game for each current/upcoming game played. Although the missed games will be replaced using a player's actual game's played average score, a player must play a current game to replace a past game. For example, if a player who has multiple missed games plays in both tournament games at the next league night, that player would be allowed to replace 2 previously missed games with their actual game's played average score.  Since we decided to allow players to replace missed games, a player must play in 7 actual games to qualify for the season-end payout.

o If you choose to replace a previously missed game, the league fee for that game would be required and due before the start of the current game. A player will not be allowed to replace a missed game without paying the league fee for that missed game. Players choosing to replace missed games are required to do so at the very next league game they attend. This is so a player can not wait to see how good/bad their average will be down the line and then decide to replace missed games. 


I'm 10 games into the season and the "game replacement" option has helped increase the season end pot/league fees and also helps keep more players interested in the stretch run as players feel like they still have a shot at the season end payout even if they missed a few games.  There are 8 players (from a pool of 10 consistent players) with a real shot at still finishing in the top 3 and all 8 still have an outside shot at the #1 spot.  This game replacement system has been the best thing for the health of my league.
« : Jun 07, 2007 at 15:06 ky70 »
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #25 : Jun 07, 2007 at 17:15 »

You may want to consider something similar to what I do for my league.

Here.  I've modeled ky's system to help explain it better...


(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
DCP
Regular
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Jackets in '09! (yeah, right)


« #26 : Jun 07, 2007 at 17:31 »

You may want to consider something similar to what I do for my league.

Here.  I've modeled ky's system to help explain it better...



That makes so much more sense  ::)

Greg - Just another poker player in Louisiana - P* deviantla
Dark City Poker League - Shreveport, LA
Midnight Rose
Global Moderator
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« #27 : Jun 07, 2007 at 19:24 »

You may want to consider something similar to what I do for my league.

Here.  I've modeled ky's system to help explain it better...



Damn, I thought for a minute that I was still at work.
ryder such as
MTPL
Regular
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« #28 : Jun 07, 2007 at 20:45 »




Smith, if you are following the rules, an absent player cannot win a hand.  Their hand is supposed to be folded immediately after the deal.

We were following the rules, our rules.  At the time we didn't have any rule regarding absent players, so we played it.

just so i get this right....
you were following your rules, yet at the time you didnt have a rule? so what WERE you following? and more importantly, what will you follow in the future? and is it in writing?

Exalted Grand Marshall
MTPL since 2006

R-E-A-D-A-B-O-ohkay!!!!

it's not my fault.... my parents did a TON of drugs when I was conceived
ky70
Regular
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« #29 : Jun 08, 2007 at 00:51 »

You may want to consider something similar to what I do for my league.

Here.  I've modeled ky's system to help explain it better...


ROFL...don't knock it until you've spent weeks, days and hours creating and fine tuning the concept and even depriving yourself of sleep and the modern comforts of life just to create the "perfect" system to address the needs and concerns of your league and your players...is all I'm saying.  ;)

Seriously though, I should have added that I do not recommend this work around for everybody as this was put in place to address a specific issue and every league does not have this issue or doesn't consider it an issue that needs addressing.
« : Jun 08, 2007 at 00:56 ky70 »
Kyle Smith
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« #30 : Jun 08, 2007 at 07:47 »







We were following the rules, our rules.  At the time we didn't have any rule regarding absent players, so we played it.

just so i get this right....
you were following your rules, yet at the time you didnt have a rule? so what WERE you following? and more importantly, what will you follow in the future? and is it in writing?
[/quote]

When we started playing we didn't have a rule regarding late or absent players.  So by default we let the guy play it out as if he was sitting there and folding every time.  The only time his cards were live were if everyone folded to him in the big blind or when his stack was all in.  At the time it seemed the logical way to play it.  We have it in writing now to play it the same way if it happens in the future, although that chance is slim, it has only occurred once in six years.  I have been looking through the other threads on how to handle late players and that might change how we handle absent players.
Some people on this forum are highly critical of how others handle situations, but when you are creating tournaments and rules from scratch it is hard to foresee every possible scenario.  At the time we started playing, poker wasn't all over the internet, and I just found this site a few months ago, it would have helped a great deal.
« : Jun 08, 2007 at 07:50 smithwesson79 »

"I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the fear." -- Dr. Gonzo
Kyle Smith
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« #31 : Jun 08, 2007 at 07:50 »







We were following the rules, our rules.  At the time we didn't have any rule regarding absent players, so we played it.

just so i get this right....
you were following your rules, yet at the time you didnt have a rule? so what WERE you following? and more importantly, what will you follow in the future? and is it in writing?

When we started playing we didn't have a rule regarding late or absent players.  So by default we let the guy play it out as if he was sitting there and folding every time.  The only time his cards were live were if everyone folded to him in the big blind or when his stack was all in.  At the time it seemed the logical way to play it.  We have it in writing now to play it the same way if it happens in the future, although that chance is slim, it has only occurred once in six years.  I have been looking through the other threads on how to handle late players and that might change how we handle absent players.
Some people on this forum are highly critical of how others handle situations, but when you are creating tournaments and rules from scratch it is hard to foresee every possible scenario.  At the time we started playing, poker wasn't all over the internet, and I just found this site a few months ago, it would have helped a great deal.




"I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the fear." -- Dr. Gonzo
HPTMYH
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« #32 : Jun 08, 2007 at 09:06 »

The fold in turn is further perpetuated because that's how online sites handle it (at least the ones I'm familiar with) which I'm assuming has far greater exposure over live casinos or card rooms.  It makes sense though since the computer can't tell who is or isn't in front of their computer.
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #33 : Jun 08, 2007 at 09:09 »

The fold in turn is further perpetuated because that's how online sites handle it (at least the ones I'm familiar with) which I'm assuming has far greater exposure over live casinos or card rooms.  It makes sense though since the computer can't tell who is or isn't in front of their computer.

Yet.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
Midnight Rose
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« #34 : Jun 08, 2007 at 12:43 »

Some people on this forum are highly critical of how others handle situations, but when you are creating tournaments and rules from scratch it is hard to foresee every possible scenario.

Good point.  I've been guilty of this myself (though, really, I just want to smack up some duhmbutts), so for my part, I apologize and will try to be more tolerant in the future.
TC
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« #35 : Jun 11, 2007 at 10:29 »

In our weekly league, this situation happens quite often (because of softball, kids sports......etc).

We've stated that if a person has money in the pot then they have chips on the table. 

One player had to leave when there was six players left (4 get paid) because of a softball game.  We just continued to blind him off............surprisingly he took fourth and got money.

One season the points race was so close that one person (knowing she couldn't be there) bought in because of the points.  She knew that she wouldn't be the first or second out so she took her chance and got whatever points she was awarded. 

The person before the blank spot will deal twice (once for himself and then once for the absent player).  The blinds continue in order. 
NYYank
Player
**
: 6


« #36 : Jun 11, 2007 at 14:08 »

Well everything went ok for the tournament. We had 17 players including the absent player. 8 players on 1 table and 9 on the table with the absent player. The absent player finished in 8th place. We have a very low starting blind schedule, so I think this played into the finishing position because it took a long time to blind him out. A few of the players made some comments about it not being fair that a person is allowed to prepay and have chips to be blinded off. I think this was mostly because it took so long to blind him off and he was able to get more points. Before setting up the league and the blind schedule we ran a couple sample tournaments and everyone voted for the lower blind schedule to get more play up front and to make the tournament last longer. I tried to set it up with T$1,000 and the recommended blind schedule on the left, but nobody wanted to start that high. I came up with chip structure between T$500 and T$1,000 depending on how many players we had for the night that everyone was comfortable with. Our blind schedule is as follows and like I said very low to start.
1/2 20 min
2/4 20 min
4/8 20 min 10min break
5/10 15 min
10/20 15 min
15/30 15 min
25/50 15 min 10 min break
50/100 15 min
75/150 15 min (This is where absent player was blinded off)
100/200 15 min
150/300 15 min
200/400 15 min
250/500 15 min
300/600 15 min
400/800 15 min (This is where tournament ended
500/1000 15 min
Chips based on players is as follows
8 to 12 players T$1000
13 to 16 players T$750 (We played at this even though we really had 17 players)
17 to 24 players T$500
We set it up like this to have approximately $10,000 in chip in play.
Please let me know your thoughts
austin5string
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« #37 : Jun 11, 2007 at 14:33 »

My only comment is to those that complained about it.  Just point out that it's no different than the player showing up and folding every single hand.  And also ask them how it would be fair to take someone's money and then just remove the chips from the table.

~A5S

Dude is definitely weird.. If it's a bot, it's a pretty good one..  If it's a person, it's a pretty bad one.. LOL
Dr. Neau
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« #38 : Jun 11, 2007 at 19:07 »

My only comment is to those that complained about it.  Just point out that it's no different than the player showing up and folding every single hand.  And also ask them how it would be fair to take someone's money and then just remove the chips from the table.

~A5S


Here's what I'd say.

"What, you mean you can't do better than someone who doesn't even show up?"

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
Blaster
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« #39 : Jun 14, 2007 at 16:55 »

You said $18 + $7 to TOC.
  Perhaps you can devise a rule where a player may pay in, say, $10 directly into the TOC, instead of $7,  if he can't make a game.
 He can be instantly given the equiv of last place points (or xx whatever amount you decide is fair), "bonus TOC donation Points", & he will not actually buy in to the current game , or therefore  need chips on the table. Players/places in the game are played/paid as usual.
  This may make the "grumblers" happy, & as long as you stick in some "limitations" , such as a player may only do this once or twice per season, & not after a certian amount of games have been played ... Perhaps once as a "bonus donation" while attending a game, & once again if missing a game ....
You may actually find the players that miss a game are willing to build up your TOC pool , instead of just not showing up ...
« : Jun 14, 2007 at 17:04 Blaster »
Dr. Neau
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« #40 : Jun 14, 2007 at 21:40 »

You said $18 + $7 to TOC.
  Perhaps you can devise a rule where a player may pay in, say, $10 directly into the TOC, instead of $7,  if he can't make a game.
 He can be instantly given the equiv of last place points (or xx whatever amount you decide is fair), "bonus TOC donation Points", & he will not actually buy in to the current game , or therefore  need chips on the table. Players/places in the game are played/paid as usual.
  This may make the "grumblers" happy, & as long as you stick in some "limitations" , such as a player may only do this once or twice per season, & not after a certian amount of games have been played ... Perhaps once as a "bonus donation" while attending a game, & once again if missing a game ....
You may actually find the players that miss a game are willing to build up your TOC pool , instead of just not showing up ...

At first I wasn't going to reply, because I'll get bashed for being too critical...but I can't resist.  I think that's a horrible idea.  Now people are getting a cheap way out to make the TOC?  C'mon.

If I were a player who showed up all the time, that would make me leave the league.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
Blaster
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« #41 : Jun 15, 2007 at 10:20 »

I don't see it that way, if,  as posted,  a player can only do this "once",  & only get a relatively insignificant amount of points (last place or whatever) ... It won't be a cheap or any other way to actually make the TOC ...
   If the league is set up where 1 last place finish makes a huge difference to the all other players, then adjust the "bonus points" down accordingly, finding that amount that is still an incentive, but isn't going to alter the games to the point you mention...
 Keep in mind also, that all other players have the 1 time option to donate the $10,  & do the same, thus giving all players the ability to "even out" if they feel they need to  ....
 If set up right, it's can be a reasonable option,  ....

 But you have a point,  The OP must look at his setup, & figure out if he can make it work in his league ....

  Another option could be that absent players can donate $10 to TOC pool, & get  extra chips  in the "next" regular game he plays,  If starting is $5000,  missing player gets 5200 or 5300 next game ... Small enough that it wouldn't worry me if I had 5K to start, but still may be worthwile to the guy who completely missed the last game & any chance at points there ...
« : Jun 15, 2007 at 10:29 Blaster »
NYYank
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« #42 : Jun 15, 2007 at 11:22 »

We looked at the option of a person just paying in to the TOC and getting either a set amount of points or last place points. With our structure last place points are low, so it wasn't worth the money paid in. If we gave a set amount of points then a person is basically just buying chips (points) for the TOC. After I tried every idea I could come up with is when I posted on here to tap into the vast knowledge of everyone here. It seams the majority opinioon is to let the person buy-in for the normal amount and blind them off. This way the absent player is paying a premium price for the points he wil get and most liklely has no chance of cashing in for the game he is absent unless there is some real aggressive play and alot of people get knocked out early. Let's say on a tournament that pays 4 places and there are 5 people left including the absent, you are stupid for going out in 5th place and letting the absent player cash. I hope that scenario never happens, but it would be interesting to see how some of the other players would play at that time. There are some that would have no clue what they were doing until they bust out in 5th and don't cash. If we had a higher starting blind schedule then the absent player would have gone out in 10th or 11th place. One thing it does is promote a little faster play to get in as amny hands as possible. If you can get the absent player to post 2 BB per round, then that is all the sooner he will be blinded off. Some of it depends on how many players are at the table, how fast people shuffle and deal and how long people take to play a hand. We had 9 players at the table and alot of slow players. It is just another tactic to the game that players need to be aware of and how to play against it.
CB6453
Player
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« #43 : May 05, 2017 at 13:08 »

Quote
Everybody agrees that dead money in the payout is good.

That's a surprise.

In my opinion, to run an ethical tournament, you have exactly two options:
- Return their money and they get no points, or
- Blind them off until all of their chips are gone.

Anything else is unfair and in my opinion stealing.  How can you estimate where they would've finished?  There are too many factors that come into play.

THIS!
Wedge Rock
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« #44 : May 05, 2017 at 14:58 »

10-year bump.

This man is on a roll!

Wedge Rock (not a real rock)



Guilty of over-using ellipses...
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