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greggpath
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« : May 13, 2016 at 07:32 »

So a good point was brought up in my league last night. We had two tables last night. A player on table 1 was going to be late so we put his stack at his seat and paid his blinds to the pot when applicable. Come the end of the third round (last round for rebuys), the player texted me and said he wouldn't be making it so we took his stack (which was down about 33% of a starting stack) off the table. This is always how we've handled late players, although we usually know they're not coming earlier so we remove their stack earlier. Last night, however, some players on table 2 thought it was unfair that players on table 1 "stole" all those big and small blinds from the player who didn't show up and now there were that many more chips on table 1. Is this unfair to the players on table 2? If so, how do we remedy it? The only solution I can think of is that we don't put the stacks of late players on the table and, when they show up, give them a full stack minus one bb and one sb for each level that the player has missed.
Jambine
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My Passion


« #1 : May 13, 2016 at 10:05 »

Actually you did exactly the right thing.  As long  as you're consistent about when you pick up the dead stack.  Probably should have something in your house rules like:  all dead stacks will be picked up at the end of level "X"

Cash game at Three Creek Ranch
Nerre
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: 1126


« #2 : May 14, 2016 at 00:52 »

There is no substantial difference beteen an absent player and a player who folds every hand. If some players think this is unfair, aske them if you should forbid players folding.
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #3 : May 16, 2016 at 20:33 »

Did it right.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
Tex Rex
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: 351



« #4 : May 22, 2016 at 22:53 »

There is another way to do it.  About 3 months ago we implemented a system where we put stacks at all seats.  If a player isn't there, we put a RESERVE button in front of the stack.  When the BB reaches that stack, we remove a SB and BB from the stack and put it out of play.  That seat is not dealt cards, so no player gets the advantage of the dealer position automatically.  The BB simply goes to the next seat.  When a player shows, he draws from one of the stacks and gets that stack and assumes that position.  He receives cards the next hand, unless he happens to come when the BB has passed and the SB is behind him, in which case he sits out that hand, then receives cards as the DEALER the next hand.  That's one hand in an orbit.  No one is disadvantaged by this, and no player has an advantage by that player being missing.  Further, it does penalize tardiness.

Tex Rex in Texas
Nerre
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« #5 : May 23, 2016 at 01:23 »

There is one HUGE disadvantage with that: The total number of chips in play is getting reduced (provided late players show up).
Tex Rex
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« #6 : May 23, 2016 at 08:17 »

How is that really a disadvantage?  Suppose a player shows up who you aren't expecting, but he's late.  Assuming you let him play, does he get a full stack or a reduced amount?  If he gets a reduced amount, does that become a smaller stack, or do those chips get assigned to someone else in the game?

Consider this:  If I'm 2 seats to the right of a late player, every time that player is the BB, assuming no raises in front of me, it makes sense to raise.  Even if the SB calls, I might be only against 1 player.  I can ALWAYS steal the BB if no one else calls.  I as in me -- the same person every time.  That's a big advantage, but it's not randomly spread throughout the table.  It falls in the same sequence every orbit.  And there will be someone 2 places to an absent player's right.

For years we just gave a full stack.  Anyone who did the math on the results those players experienced would see that being late is a disadvantage, but there was always a perception that those late comers got away with something.  No one however, wanted to give another player or two an advantage no one else got every orbit.  This method solves both problems.

I'm not saying it's the best way to do it, but it is another way to do it that does not involve giving 1 or 2 players an consistent advantage.

Tex Rex in Texas
dawgs18
Player
**
: 13


« #7 : Jan 11, 2017 at 11:58 »

I treat it like a tournament at a casino. The player's stack is not in play until they show up or until rebuy's are over.
Tex Rex
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« #8 : Jan 11, 2017 at 14:43 »

Dawgs, there is nothing wrong with that.  We used to do that, and when they arrived, they went into the big blind so that they at least had to pay something to see the first hand.

There is no right or wrong answer.  Just be consistent.  As I pointed out, with blinding in (as opposed to the blinding out method I outlined above), the person to the immediate right and 2nd right benefit every single round.  I don't think casinos care about that.  People who come to home games do seem to care.  They also think the casino policy of "give them a full stack when they pay for it" is OK at a casino, but not a home game.  I made changes not because the policy is unfair, but because players perceive it as unfair.

This year we are trying something new.  For most tournaments, stack sizes were reduced by 8-12%.  There is an on-time bonus.  Get there on time, and you get the bonus.  If you don't, you get the normal stack.  I'll see if it reduces some administrative hassles and more importantly helps us start on time.

Tex Rex in Texas
Wedge Rock
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CC&GTCC # R-7604


« #9 : Apr 04, 2017 at 17:54 »

There is another way to do it.  About 3 months ago we implemented a system where we put stacks at all seats.  If a player isn't there, we put a RESERVE button in front of the stack.  When the BB reaches that stack, we remove a SB and BB from the stack and put it out of play.  That seat is not dealt cards, so no player gets the advantage of the dealer position automatically.  The BB simply goes to the next seat.  When a player shows, he draws from one of the stacks and gets that stack and assumes that position.  He receives cards the next hand, unless he happens to come when the BB has passed and the SB is behind him, in which case he sits out that hand, then receives cards as the DEALER the next hand.  That's one hand in an orbit.  No one is disadvantaged by this, and no player has an advantage by that player being missing.  Further, it does penalize tardiness.


Interesting, but:

1. I don't think there is a drastic advantage to those who pick up a absent SB or BB once per orbit.
2. The late player is not punished by this...  not anymore than having his blinds posted.
3. The other players at the table are actually punished (or rewarded) by playing on a shorter table.  What if you have three late players on the same table?

Consider this:  If I'm 2 seats to the right of a late player, every time that player is the BB, assuming no raises in front of me, it makes sense to raise.  Even if the SB calls, I might be only against 1 player.  I can ALWAYS steal the BB if no one else calls.  I as in me -- the same person every time.  That's a big advantage, but it's not randomly spread throughout the table.  It falls in the same sequence every orbit.  And there will be someone 2 places to an absent player's right.

If no one picks up on you raising every time an absent player is the BB, can I get an invite to your game?

I do agree with your point that this advantage is not evenly spread throughout the table.

In theory, its probably better to remove the blinds from play rather than post them, removing all advantage for any one player, but again, the difference is so minimal, it doesn't seem worth the effort.  It would be interesting to see how many blinds are actually pulled, tho, to see how much of an advantage there really is.

Just be consistent.

This.

The time it takes to create written rules pays for itself after a short time.

Wedge Rock (not a real rock)



Guilty of over-using ellipses...
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