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: Question about Paying Out Cash Game  ( 44616 )
Jaywa
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« : Dec 02, 2013 at 13:40 »

So later this month we'll be hosting our final tournament with the Top 10 players in our league playing for the Championship Pot. It looks as though I'll still have about 8 players who aren't in the Top 10 but would still like to play cards that night. I was going to run another tournament for them and just let my Brother in Law oversee it as he runs his own games as well. But then I thought a better idea would be to run a cash game with a $10 max buyin, my thinking is that players busted from the main game could join into that one.

I've never run a cash game only tourneys so my question is what's the simplest way I can run the payouts? I would assume I'd need a bunch of $1's? Do I give them $1 chips? Just seems like there wouldn't be a whole lot of chips for new players that way. I'd like to not have to worry about paying out anything lower than $1 though, getting enough $1's will be hard enough.

How do you guys payout for cash games?

Smith and Wesson beats 5 of a kind.
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #1 : Dec 02, 2013 at 14:10 »

I'm a little worried I'm not interpreting your questions correctly...so here's what I do.

My cash games are $100 buy-in with $0.50/$0.50 blinds.  The face value of the chips is cash value.  A $0.50 chip is the smallest chip in play.

When someone cashes out...they give me chips and I give them money.


Are you looking for more than that??

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #2 : Dec 02, 2013 at 14:11 »

I'll add...

If you're saying you're going to have a $10-buy-in cash game and the smallest chip in play is $1...that cash game would suck.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
Jaywa
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« #3 : Dec 02, 2013 at 14:15 »

Yeah I've obviously never done this before. I'll have .25 chips available I just don't know how I'd pay out quarters?

Do you keep a bunch of change for your payouts? That being said do you just have a bunch of $1's on hand to handle payouts?

So once someone is done playing they come to you with $87.25 and you have that exact amount on hand out of the $100's they've given you?

Smith and Wesson beats 5 of a kind.
Martini
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« #4 : Dec 02, 2013 at 14:58 »

I would recommend the buy in being at least 100x the BB so if you plan on having a $10 buy in I'd make the blinds .05/.10. Having a $10 buy in with $1 chips as the lowest denomination would not be poker anymore.

As for the amount of change needed, see this post (http://forums.homepokertourney.com/index.php/topic,19759.msg231516.html#msg231516) and you can adapt the formula if you end up using nickels.

If you went to a casino and built your stack up to $309, do you want them cashing you out for $300? I'm guessing not. You should have the correct denominations to pay out everyone exactly. You do not want the bank to end up with whatever it started out with at the beginning of the night. If the bank keeps spare change that gets into territory that we can't talk about here. Getting change is easy, just go to the bank and tell them you want whether it be $1 bills, quarters, nickels, or anything else.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
Jaywa
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« #5 : Dec 02, 2013 at 15:25 »

I'm thinking after talking with you guys I'll make the blinds .25/.50 with a $20 max buyin. Figure 40x the BB isn't bad as our usual buyin is $30 with a $20 rebuy. I'll just get 2 rolls of quarters for my wife's buyin (She didn't make the Top 10) and another $20 in $1's.

Sticking with .25/.50 simply because I'll be using my tournament set of chips for this game as well and I have $25 and $50 chips (Don't use the $50 ones anymore but still have them).

Thanks guys wasn't sure the easiest way to do it.

Smith and Wesson beats 5 of a kind.
Martini
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« #6 : Dec 02, 2013 at 15:53 »

Using tourney chips for cash game is less than ideal since chips can, either accidentally or purposely, end up migrating over to the cash game. It can and does happen but you should just realize that at the end of the night the bank might end up short and there's not going to be really anything you can do about it short of very tight video surveillance.

If you want to stick to $20 max I'd consider doing .25/.25 blinds instead. It's unconventional but not unheard of. That will give you 80xBB and the game will improve because of it. I've played in a .25/.25 game and I'd say it's worth doing even if it's a little odd.

Personally, I would get extra change. If not, you might end up having to ask players to fish through their wallets to come up with small bills. Or worse, you might not have enough change even with help from the players. Then you'd be stuck as the bank. There's really no downside to having extra change. You can always either spend the small bills or go back to the bank and sell it back.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
Jaywa
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« #7 : Dec 02, 2013 at 16:14 »

Good points on all...I've contacted a player that plays regularly and owns his own set of chips as I think he has denominations down to 1 cent or something, so if he has lower chips I'll go that way. Doing the math and I'd end up leaving myself kind of short for color ups on the main table depending on how many I have at the cash game.

My bank is gonna love me!

Smith and Wesson beats 5 of a kind.
Gobbs
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2010 Orange Bowl Champions


« #8 : Dec 02, 2013 at 16:38 »

Good points on all...I've contacted a player that plays regularly and owns his own set of chips as I think he has denominations down to 1 cent or something, so if he has lower chips I'll go that way. Doing the math and I'd end up leaving myself kind of short for color ups on the main table depending on how many I have at the cash game.

My bank is gonna love me!


That's the way to go.  Even if you can't find a cash game set, find somebody with a different tournament set and use 25 chips as a quarter, 100 chips as a dollar, etc.  It's not perfect, but it works better than most other options and definitely prevents co-mingling of chips.

You can't have an opinion contrary to a fact.
Martini
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« #9 : Dec 02, 2013 at 16:40 »

...
My bank is gonna love me!

http://screen.yahoo.com/first-citywide-change-bank-1-000000088.html

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
Jaywa
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« #10 : Dec 02, 2013 at 17:08 »

Mmmmm.....50 $2s!!

Smith and Wesson beats 5 of a kind.
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #11 : Dec 02, 2013 at 19:59 »

So all that, and...

As a host of a cash game, it is your job to have all kinds of change on hand.

I just keep a bunch of $1's and $5's in the bottom of my cash box.  I keep the actual buyins in the top tray, which always equals the cash on the table.  When needed, I make change from the stuff on the bottom in exchange for the larger bills on top.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
Nerre
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« #12 : Dec 03, 2013 at 02:26 »

You could also ask (not demand) your players to buy in using coins for a part of the amount (but you would still need the change since you won't know how many actually will).

It would make things a lot easier to use something like Paypal instead of cash (but then it's not a "cash" game :) and it makes it harder for players to buy in as they arrive).
Detroitdad
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« #13 : Dec 03, 2013 at 08:20 »

I host/run a ton of cash games.

I have skimmed the posts fwiw.

As stated, never use the same chips for the tourney/cash game. Worse case scenario this gives you an opportunity to buy a second set.

As the host you should provide the bank. I host a .25/.50 cash game. Max Buy In is $50.00-$60.00's. You can reload back up to the 50, or rebuy up to the 50 at any time. I actually prefer my guests to buy in with larger bills makes it easier to cash them out.

I go overboard with the bank. I keep a minimum of

20-One Dollar bills
10-Five Dollar bills
13-Ten Dollar bills

This puts 200 in the bank. This is plenty for giving change at the beginning of the night, and for cashing people out. Several of us will buy 100 in chips, just pocket the extra 50 (us gamblers know we will be adding on, or rebuying anyways).

I used to keep quarters available, but nobody ever wanted them, so f$%k it. I don't waste my time anymore keeping them on hand (unless you want to play some side games during the cash game, lol).

I don't care how much you trust your company. Either keep the bank in a locked drawer, or on your persons at all times. Only one person manages the bank. That is you. If it comes up short. Its your problem. You have to cover the losses.

If your still in the tourney when the cash game starts then just miss a couple of tourney hands while you give the cash game buy ins to the participants.

If this is redundant to what was already posted sorry.






The Lions will be the death of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gobbs
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2010 Orange Bowl Champions


« #14 : Dec 03, 2013 at 08:59 »

I host/run a ton of cash games.

I have skimmed the posts fwiw.

As stated, never use the same chips for the tourney/cash game. Worse case scenario this gives you an opportunity to buy a second set.

As the host you should provide the bank. I host a .25/.50 cash game. Max Buy In is $50.00-$60.00's. You can reload back up to the 50, or rebuy up to the 50 at any time. I actually prefer my guests to buy in with larger bills makes it easier to cash them out.

I go overboard with the bank. I keep a minimum of

20-One Dollar bills
10-Five Dollar bills
13-Ten Dollar bills

This puts 200 in the bank. This is plenty for giving change at the beginning of the night, and for cashing people out. Several of us will buy 100 in chips, just pocket the extra 50 (us gamblers know we will be adding on, or rebuying anyways).

I used to keep quarters available, but nobody ever wanted them, so f$%k it. I don't waste my time anymore keeping them on hand (unless you want to play some side games during the cash game, lol).

I don't care how much you trust your company. Either keep the bank in a locked drawer, or on your persons at all times. Only one person manages the bank. That is you. If it comes up short. Its your problem. You have to cover the losses.

If your still in the tourney when the cash game starts then just miss a couple of tourney hands while you give the cash game buy ins to the participants.

If this is redundant to what was already posted sorry.



Don't think it's redundant...and even if it is, good synopsis.

You can't have an opinion contrary to a fact.
Martini
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« #15 : Dec 03, 2013 at 09:37 »

I agree with most of what Detroitdad said except for allowing players to pocket chips. In my game all chips stay on the table at all times. Letting people keep chips in their pocket can lead to people going south (squirreling away profit) and/or forgetting chips in their pocket and taking them home. It's also prevents a (probably new) player from claiming that he has more chips in play than what is visible on the table in all in situations. Just overall a not good idea which can lead to serious issues.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
Wedge Rock
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CC&GTCC # R-7604


« #16 : Dec 03, 2013 at 10:59 »

Like DD, I keep a cash "bank" of small bills.  I keep the bills in a ziploc bag with a note of how much is in the bank.  When players buyin, I give them their chips and add their buyin to the bank.  Most people buyin in using $20 bills ($50 buyin, I get three $20's...  I give them $50 in chips and a $10 bill).

We play 25c/50c.  If a player cashes out before the end of the night, that player will usually round down to the nearest dollar and throw the extra quarter chips into the next pot.  If the player doesn't want to do that, I am prepared to add up to 75c to his stack to round it up to the next even dollar (my cost for choosing to omit change).  Technically, I shouldn't be taking more money off the table, but 1.) no one has insisted on a round-up yet, and 2.) if someone did insist on a roundup, and someone had a problem with me taking 75c out of my stack, I would just short the bank up to 75c...afterall, its my bank and I'll square the shortage at the end of the night.

At the end of the night, same thing.  Players usually don't insist on getting their quarters back.  Typically, if two players have an extra quarter, they'll donate them to the player with an extra 50c, and round him up to a dollar.

Quarters have just never been an issue with our group to go through the trouble of keeping them in the bank for cashouts.

Wedge Rock (not a real rock)



Guilty of over-using ellipses...
Martini
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« #17 : Dec 03, 2013 at 13:03 »

Another option for spare quarters at the end of the night is that everyone throws any "extra" quarters (anything not evenly divisible into a buck in the middle and play a face up hand of Hold'em. The board is run nice and slow so everyone gets a mini-sweat. Winner takes down a couple bucks of change so almost everyone (if not everyone) cashes out even. This does not address the situation of someone leaving early with an odd amount of quarters owed. Personally I pay out to the quarter because I'd rather just deal with exact change than deal with protocol about rounding when cashing out. That also means that the bank should zero out exactly at the end of the night which satisfies my OCD.

We've also swept spare change into a Bad Beat Jackpot that gets paid out at the end of the calendar month to the best losing hand for that month as another way to get rid of spare change at cash out.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
Detroitdad
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« #18 : Dec 03, 2013 at 15:04 »

I agree with most of what Detroitdad said except for allowing players to pocket chips. In my game all chips stay on the table at all times. Letting people keep chips in their pocket can lead to people going south (squirreling away profit) and/or forgetting chips in their pocket and taking them home. It's also prevents a (probably new) player from claiming that he has more chips in play than what is visible on the table in all in situations. Just overall a not good idea which can lead to serious issues.

Those are fair enough concerns. Honestly, its usually me (I run the bank) and 1, maybe 2 other guys that do this. Its nothing that I can't keep track of.

If it ever got to the point where everyone was doing it then I would probably have to stop it.


The Lions will be the death of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wedge Rock
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CC&GTCC # R-7604


« #19 : Dec 03, 2013 at 16:00 »

So, DD buyins in for $100, but I only allow him to put $50 on the table.  He puts two $25 chips in his pocket.

Later, after his massive draws all miss and he loses half his stack, he can refill without me having to sell him more chips (or, if he's felted, he can rebuy for $50 again without me having to go to the bank).  DD always announces when he's going into his pocket to top off -- though I don't know if he's required to do so.  (And just yesterday, I bought two barrels of fives ($200) and 4 quarters ($100) and sat down at a $200 max table at a Detroit casino.  When my stack took a hit, I re-upped with the 4 quarters from my pocket without telling anyone.  It was rather obvious, as they were the only green chips at the table, tho...)

If DD leaves my game with chips in his pocket, I don't care.  I would gladly sell him my entire cash set at face value.  And chances are, he'd be bringing it back to the next game if he left with chips by mistake.  I'd probably have a text/email from him as soon as he got home and realized it.  In fact, I'd probably realize it sooner, because I generally don't pay out anything at the end of the night until I know the bank is square...  If the bank was +$50, I'd say something and DD would remember the two $25 chips in his pocket.

Going south and/or a player claiming he has more in play would be a concern in general, but its just not a concern with our group.  We've been playing together too long.

I know Gobbs' head just exploded -- rules are there for a reason and need to be strictly enforced.  If a player were to take chips off the table, they'd promptly be advised that they cannot do so.  If they can't follow that rule, they can cash out (and not be invited back).  And chips that are not on the table are not in play, so DD's pocket $50 would never be an issue.

Really, DD is the only one (I think) in our group that may buy more than he puts on the table...and even then, he does it maybe half the time.

Wedge Rock (not a real rock)



Guilty of over-using ellipses...
Martini
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« #20 : Dec 03, 2013 at 18:18 »

I can see not minding selling Reds and Greens at face value. I'd think that fractionals would be a different story.

I would always want the bank to even out at the end of the night. I'd also want all chips to stay visible. That would minimize the chance of extra chips coming out of anyone's pocket and the bank being short.

The other issue is that my game plays deep. Standard buy in for a .25/.50 game would be $100 or 200xBB. That does a couple things. One, it makes it less likely that people get felted. Two, it means less change since people pay with either a $100 or 5x$20 and get a full rack.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
Jaxen
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« #21 : Dec 17, 2014 at 22:15 »

Easy way to solve DD's problem cashing out odd amounts when you don't have quarters in the bank ... at the end of the game, cash out everybody's dollars, the odd quarters everyone has will add up to a full dollar or 2 (unless somebody bought in for $60.25 or so). Deal a hand to everyone face up then deal a board, winning hand gets the odd quarters that make full dollars. It's a small incentive to get people to stay until the game breaks.

"…if he fails, he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

-- Teddy Roosevelt
Detroitdad
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« #22 : Dec 18, 2014 at 10:29 »

I used to keep quarters on hand to be able to pay out the exact amount of the cash out. In 3 years nobody ever wanted a quarter.

The Lions will be the death of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wedge Rock
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« #23 : Dec 18, 2014 at 10:33 »

Yep.  In our game, odd quarters, and sometimes even odd chips up to $5 would just be handed to another player to even them out to the nearest $5.

That said, I wouldn't mind a face-up showdown for the odd money in the bank at the end of the night.

I do best when skill is 100% removed and the game is all about luck.  ;)

Wedge Rock (not a real rock)



Guilty of over-using ellipses...
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