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: More 1/2 PLHE  ( 5347 )
stooks99
Regular
***
: 1485



« : Aug 30, 2012 at 01:19 »

This hand is from a separate night that any of the others I've posted, not that it makes that much difference.

We ($300) open to $7 with  tclubs tdiamonds and get flatted by a guy two to our left that has tortured us in position all night.  Let's call him Eric.  He's definitely the best player in the game (besides us, obv.) and he is stuck around $300 for the night.  While he's generally very solid, as his losses go up, so does his looseness.  He has around $180 to start this hand.

Everyone else folds and we take a flop:
 kdiamonds 2diamonds 2clubs  (Pot $ 17)  We are first to act and bet $13.  Eric calls (pot $43) and turn is  8clubs.  Again, this guy has tortured me in position tonight and I really find myself kinda lost when I get in these spots with him.  He's good enough to raise the flop with a flush draw and then check for a free card. But, he's also good enough to know that I know that, so he's just as capable of calling with a draw as he is a King or even a pair between 22 and Kings.

What's our action?  
If we check, are we calling and hoping to get to showdown cheap?
 If we bet and are raised, what are we thinking about?
 If we bet and get called, what are we doing on diamond rivers?  
On non-diamond rivers?

[spoiler]Trying to decide weather to bet enough to price out a flush draw and checking in hopes of getting to showdown, I checked.  He bet $30 relatively quickly.  I called in tempo...probably 10 seconds or so.

River   aspades  

I think we are obviously checking this river (unless a case could be made for putting out a defensive bet, which doesn't have much merit, IMO).  So, obviously we are checking hoping for him to check behind and have a busted diamond draw...but, are we?  As I checked, I remember hoping he bet.  A check would likely come from a hand that almost always beats me.  A bet, however, still has the option of being a busted draw.  With the Ace on the river, it's really hard for him to bet a king now.  So, unless he had the nut flush draw, the ace is almost a blank to me.  [/spoiler]

River Play
[spoiler]As I said in my earlier analysis, I didn't think of this card as much of a threat.  I checked with the intention of calling up to $50 on the river, unless he gave something away.  He bet $40 pretty quickly and I tanked.  I really didn't feel like he wanted a call here, and then he said something that really made my decision easy:  "I think that river saved me; I didn't like my kicker.  I tossed in the $40 pretty much the second he finished that statement.  He said, "good call" and I tabled my tens.  The table was impressed, but I don't think that it's that tough of a play when it's analysed well.[/spoiler]
« : Aug 31, 2012 at 19:04 stooks99 »

When you kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.  -- Winston Churchill

www.deadmoneypoker.webs.com
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #1 : Aug 30, 2012 at 03:13 »

Raise to $7 with TT, fine. Cbet the Flop, no issue with that but at that point I'm done with the hand and I'll wait for a better spot. So in this instance I'd just get into check/fold short of any soul reads on the guy. If this guy is trying to bully you from position just wait until you have the goods.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
Wedge Rock
Global Moderator
Regular
****
: 9545


CC&GTCC # R-7604


« #2 : Aug 30, 2012 at 13:53 »

Just throwing away $20 here seems like the best option.  Unfortunately, villain probably knows that too and bets if we check.  Especially since villain is stuck for $300 and might be calling with a draw and/or a lower pair.

I might bet $20 and be looking to fold to a raise or a river bet (after our check) -- I might call a reasonable bet from villain if the river is a non-diamond.  Are we up for the night with our $300 in front of us?

Wedge Rock (not a real rock)



Guilty of over-using ellipses...
stooks99
Regular
***
: 1485



« #3 : Aug 30, 2012 at 14:01 »

Just throwing away $20 here seems like the best option.  Unfortunately, villain probably knows that too and bets if we check.  Especially since villain is stuck for $300 and might be calling with a draw and/or a lower pair.

I might bet $20 and be looking to fold to a raise or a river bet (after our check) -- I might call a reasonable bet from villain if the river is a non-diamond.  Are we up for the night with our $300 in front of us?

We started with $100, so it's been a good night so far.

When you kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.  -- Winston Churchill

www.deadmoneypoker.webs.com
Zombie
Regular
***
: 427



« #4 : Aug 30, 2012 at 14:17 »

I'm going to disagree with Martini on this one. If "Eric" has been using his position against us all night, I would have to tighten up, and start striking when my hand is made.

Because we didn't, I agree with Wedge and would cut my losses at $20. My guess (from limited knowledge) is that you raised to $22 (give or take $3).

Our styles clearly differ, and I suspect your cash game skills are better (I'm mostly a tournament player).

Mediocre poker players never die, they're just blinded away.
Wedge Rock
Global Moderator
Regular
****
: 9545


CC&GTCC # R-7604


« #5 : Aug 30, 2012 at 15:00 »

TBF, Martini suggests check-fold.  I'm suggesting I might take a stab at it because we're up $200 and this guy could be playing us from position.

Wedge Rock (not a real rock)



Guilty of over-using ellipses...
Zombie
Regular
***
: 427



« #6 : Aug 31, 2012 at 09:25 »

Yep you're right. I do agree with Martini!  :D

Mediocre poker players never die, they're just blinded away.
Detroitdad
MTPL
Regular
***
: 13474



« #7 : Aug 31, 2012 at 14:03 »

This hand is from a separate night that any of the others I've posted, not that it makes that much difference.

We ($300) open to $7 with  tclubs tdiamonds and get flatted by a guy two to our left that has tortured us in position all night.  Let's call him Eric.  He's definitely the best player in the game (besides us, obv.) and he is stuck around $300 for the night.  While he's generally very solid, as his losses go up, so does his looseness.  He has around $180 to start this hand.

Everyone else folds and we take a flop:
 kdiamonds 2diamonds 2clubs  (Pot $ 17)  We are first to act and bet $13.  Eric calls (pot $43) and turn is  8clubs.  Again, this guy has tortured me in position tonight and I really find myself kinda lost when I get in these spots with him.  He's good enough to raise the flop with a flush draw and then check for a free card. But, he's also good enough to know that I know that, so he's just as capable of calling with a draw as he is a King or even a pair between 22 and Kings.

What's our action? 
If we check, are we calling and hoping to get to showdown cheap?
 If we bet and are raised, what are we thinking about?
 If we bet and get called, what are we doing on diamond rivers? 
On non-diamond rivers?



I haven't read the other responses yet. Mine is prolly a little more aggressive than most. I think I get on the Turn here, anywhere from 27-35 dollars (pending on how the betting patterns have been going through out the night). If he calls, I'm guessing he isn't chasing a flush any more. I might have to put him on a garbage king. If he calls say a 30 dollar bet there will be 100 bucks in the pot. Pending on "how" he calls I might just f$%king fire again on the river or just check/fold.

The Lions will be the death of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
stooks99
Regular
***
: 1485



« #8 : Aug 31, 2012 at 17:00 »

This hand is from a separate night that any of the others I've posted, not that it makes that much difference.

We ($300) open to $7 with  tclubs tdiamonds and get flatted by a guy two to our left that has tortured us in position all night.  Let's call him Eric.  He's definitely the best player in the game (besides us, obv.) and he is stuck around $300 for the night.  While he's generally very solid, as his losses go up, so does his looseness.  He has around $180 to start this hand.

Everyone else folds and we take a flop:
 kdiamonds 2diamonds 2clubs  (Pot $ 17)  We are first to act and bet $13.  Eric calls (pot $43) and turn is  8clubs.  Again, this guy has tortured me in position tonight and I really find myself kinda lost when I get in these spots with him.  He's good enough to raise the flop with a flush draw and then check for a free card. But, he's also good enough to know that I know that, so he's just as capable of calling with a draw as he is a King or even a pair between 22 and Kings.

What's our action? 
If we check, are we calling and hoping to get to showdown cheap?
 If we bet and are raised, what are we thinking about?
 If we bet and get called, what are we doing on diamond rivers? 
On non-diamond rivers?



I haven't read the other responses yet. Mine is prolly a little more aggressive than most. I think I get on the Turn here, anywhere from 27-35 dollars (pending on how the betting patterns have been going through out the night). If he calls, I'm guessing he isn't chasing a flush any more. I might have to put him on a garbage king. If he calls say a 30 dollar bet there will be 100 bucks in the pot. Pending on "how" he calls I might just f$%king fire again on the river or just check/fold.


I see your thinking, but I don't know why we assume a guy loose enough for a King-rag hand isn't also loose enough to call two streets with a flush draw, especially knowing he's stuck.

When you kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.  -- Winston Churchill

www.deadmoneypoker.webs.com
Zombie
Regular
***
: 427



« #9 : Aug 31, 2012 at 17:31 »

So, As I read Stooks posts, I figure how I would play the hand. Since I'm doing that, will the DoJ come after me?

Mediocre poker players never die, they're just blinded away.
stooks99
Regular
***
: 1485



« #10 : Aug 31, 2012 at 17:52 »

Turn play added to OP

When you kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.  -- Winston Churchill

www.deadmoneypoker.webs.com
Detroitdad
MTPL
Regular
***
: 13474



« #11 : Aug 31, 2012 at 18:25 »

This hand is from a separate night that any of the others I've posted, not that it makes that much difference.

We ($300) open to $7 with  tclubs tdiamonds and get flatted by a guy two to our left that has tortured us in position all night.  Let's call him Eric.  He's definitely the best player in the game (besides us, obv.) and he is stuck around $300 for the night.  While he's generally very solid, as his losses go up, so does his looseness.  He has around $180 to start this hand.

Everyone else folds and we take a flop:
 kdiamonds 2diamonds 2clubs  (Pot $ 17)  We are first to act and bet $13.  Eric calls (pot $43) and turn is  8clubs.  Again, this guy has tortured me in position tonight and I really find myself kinda lost when I get in these spots with him.  He's good enough to raise the flop with a flush draw and then check for a free card. But, he's also good enough to know that I know that, so he's just as capable of calling with a draw as he is a King or even a pair between 22 and Kings.

What's our action? 
If we check, are we calling and hoping to get to showdown cheap?
 If we bet and are raised, what are we thinking about?
 If we bet and get called, what are we doing on diamond rivers? 
On non-diamond rivers?



I haven't read the other responses yet. Mine is prolly a little more aggressive than most. I think I get on the Turn here, anywhere from 27-35 dollars (pending on how the betting patterns have been going through out the night). If he calls, I'm guessing he isn't chasing a flush any more. I might have to put him on a garbage king. If he calls say a 30 dollar bet there will be 100 bucks in the pot. Pending on "how" he calls I might just f$%king fire again on the river or just check/fold.


I see your thinking, but I don't know why we assume a guy loose enough for a King-rag hand isn't also loose enough to call two streets with a flush draw, especially knowing he's stuck.


Obviously I would take in the flow of the night, the flow of this specific player, ect......I need to get more information. The way this has played out I would need to place my turn bet for more info on my hand.


The Lions will be the death of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Detroitdad
MTPL
Regular
***
: 13474



« #12 : Aug 31, 2012 at 18:26 »

I just read your turn card. I absolutely bet in this spot.


The Lions will be the death of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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