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: Kill pots  ( 1995 )
Jaxen
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: 2365



« : Jul 01, 2011 at 12:14 »

Played a small .10/.20 NL hold'em cash game last night. 5-6 players at any one time, most bought in for $30-40 with a couple reloads so there was over $300 on the table ... most of it in front of a loose maniac (on my left, just smashing) who was raising every pot or calling every raise pre-flop, then hitting his junk hands on the river. So here he his with $200+ in front of him and $30-50 in front of everyone else and now he's raise every hand $2-3 preflop only because he "wants to play bigger". I brought up the idea of doing kills or half-kills but nobody was receptive.

I'm not even sure I explained it right ... if somebody wins 2 pots in a row (Mr. Loose Cannon was dragging about 3 out of every 5), the blinds are doubled (or 1.5 times for a half-kill). But if the 2-time pot winner is not a blind, does he put up the double bet (a straddle so to speak) or do the blinds simply double for those who pay them that hand? Then who acts first pre-flop? Also, are kills just a limit poker thing? I've heard of them more in Omaha than Hold'em.

And BTW, I won 3 hands in 5 hours at that game and finished $25 winner. Got crap cards all night but trapped the Loose Cannon twice real nice with KK and QQ.

"…if he fails, he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

-- Teddy Roosevelt
Wedge Rock
Global Moderator
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CC&GTCC # R-7604


« #1 : Jul 01, 2011 at 12:30 »

You win one pot, you have a "leg up".

You win the second pot, you get the kill (or 1/2 kill) button.  You must kill the next pot by posting the kill (or half-kill) blind.  (If you are the 1/2 blind and win again, you must post a full kill the following hand).

Quote
To kill a pot means to post an overblind that increases the betting limit. A full kill is double the amount of the big blind, and doubles the betting limits. A half kill is one-and-a-half times the big blind, and increases the betting limits by that amount. A kill may be optional in a game, and is often used at lowball when a player wants to be dealt in right away instead of waiting to take the big blind. A kill may be required in a game for any time a specified event takes place. In high-low split games using a required kill, a player who scoops a pot bigger than a set size must kill the next pot. In other games using a required kill, a player who wins two consecutive pots must kill the next pot. In this type of kill game, a marker called a “kill button” indicates which player has won the pot, and the winner keeps this marker until the next hand is completed. If the player who has the kill button wins a second consecutive pot and it qualifies monetarily, that player must kill the next pot.
RULES OF KILL POTS

1. The kill button is neutral (belonging to no player) if:

(a) It is the first hand of a new game.

(b) The winner of the previous pot has quit the game.

(c) The previous pot was split and neither player had the kill button.

2. In a kill pot, the killer acts in proper turn (after the person on the immediate right).

3. There is no pot-size requirement for the first pot or "leg" of a kill. For the second "leg" to qualify for a kill, you must win at least one full bet for whatever limit you are playing, and it cannot be any part of the blind structure.

4. If a player with one "leg up" splits the next pot, that player still has a "leg up" for the next hand. If the player who split the pot was the kill in the previous hand, then that player must also kill the next pot.

5. A person who leaves the table with a “leg up” toward a kill still has a “leg up” upon returning to the game.

6. A player who is required to post a kill must do so that same hand even if wishing to quit or be dealt out. A player who fails to post a required kill blind will not be allowed to participate in any game until the kill money is posted.

7. Kill blinds are considered part of the pot. If a player with a required kill wins again, then that player must kill it again (for the same amount as the previous hand).

8. When a player wins both the high and the low pot (“scoops”) in a split-pot game with a kill provision, the next hand will be killed only if the pot is at least five times the size of the upper limit of the game.

9. If you are unaware that the pot has been killed and put in a lesser amount, If it is a required kill pot with the kill button faceup, you must put in the correct amount. If not, you may withdraw the chips and reconsider your action.

10. In lowball, an optional rule is allowing players to look at their first two cards and then opt whether to kill the pot. The pot may no longer be killed if any player in the game has received a third card. In order to kill the pot voluntarily, you must have at least four times the amount of the kill blind in your stack. For example: If the big blind is two chips, and the kill blind is four chips, the voluntary killer must have at least 16 chips prior to posting the kill. If this rule is used, it is in conjunction with having the killer act last on the first betting round rather than in proper order.

11. Only one kill is allowed per deal.

12. A new player is not entitled to play in a killed pot, but may do so by agreeing to kill the next pot.

13. Broken game status is allowed only for players of the same limit and game type. For this purpose, a game with a required kill is considered a different type of game than an otherwise similar game without a required kill.

http://www.homepokertourney.com/roberts-rules-of-poker.htm

Wedge Rock (not a real rock)



Guilty of over-using ellipses...
Dr. Neau
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #2 : Jul 01, 2011 at 13:37 »

2 pots in a row is a common way to do the kill.

Another way is if someone simply wins a pot of $X.  I *have* seen that in Hold'em before, but typically I only see it in a H/L game like my Omaha PLO8/b.  When someone scoops a pot over $X, the next pot is a kill pot.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
Jaxen
Regular
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« #3 : Jul 01, 2011 at 15:08 »

I get that 2 pots in a row creates a kill if you're playing them. My question is if it changes the order of action. Say I win a 2nd pot in a row, the last one from the button. Now in the cutoff, do I put out the kill bet? Or do the players in the blinds put up double? If I put it up, who acts first preflop?

I see it in what Wedge posted (In a kill pot, the killer acts in proper turn (after the person on the immediate right).) but it's not clear what the players between UTG and the killer do. If the only action before the killer are folds or calls, can the killer raise his own kill bet?

"…if he fails, he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

-- Teddy Roosevelt
Wedge Rock
Global Moderator
Regular
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: 9545


CC&GTCC # R-7604


« #4 : Jul 01, 2011 at 16:36 »

SB = $1
BB = $2
KB = $4

First to act gets the option, but its $4 to call (the KB), not $2 (the BB).  Play proceeds normally.  Its only an issue after the flop if you are playing limit (then the limits are doubled).

We've always played that if the BB is the KB, he just posts the KB (there is no separate BB).

Wedge Rock (not a real rock)



Guilty of over-using ellipses...
Dr. Neau
Regular
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Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #5 : Jul 01, 2011 at 17:13 »

A lot of places play where the Killer gets last action.

I found that too complicated and we go with what a lot of OTHER places do (and apparently Wedge does): Killer is just another better, and BB gets last action pre-flop (free of any straddles, of course).

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
William
Regular
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Bloody Marvellous


« #6 : Jul 02, 2011 at 19:11 »

You can have the Kill act in turn, or have him last to act. Whatever you wanna go with, but keep it consistent throughout the game.

If the Blinds are 1/2 and the Kill is 4, then the following must be posted:

SB = 1
BB = 2
Kill = 4

SB = 1
BB = Kill = 4

or

SB = Kill = 4
BB = 2

Difference between Limit and No/Pot Limit, is that in Limit the stakes go up as well, so in the above example with blinds of 1/2, the stakes would be 2/4. When there is a kill the blinds are 1/2/4, and the stakes are 4/8.

I'll play you in any game you name for any amount you can count.
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