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: i hate the way i played this  ( 8651 )
hayjamawas
Regular
***
: 826



« : Sep 02, 2010 at 23:23 »

i think i should've stacked this one off pre-flop    critique is appreciated here



Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($5)
UTG ($5.13)
UTG+1 ($3.13)
MP1 ($5.44)
MP2 ($6.31)
MP3 ($9.03)
CO ($6.09)
Hero (Button) ($10.30)
SB ($6.94)

Preflop: Hero is Button with ,
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.05, MP1 bets $0.20, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, MP1 raises to $2.40, Hero calls $1.65

Flop: ($4.92) , , (2 players)
MP1 bets $2.65, Hero folds

Total pot: $4.92 | Rake: $0.32

holdemholmes
Regular
***
: 1889


« #1 : Sep 02, 2010 at 23:45 »

i think this one is a stack off pre....unless you have some kind of sick read that he had aces.

"...she set you up with the old check and raise...."
pauld22
Regular
***
: 2631



« #2 : Sep 02, 2010 at 23:52 »

Ugh, stupid spot.  Villian has to have AA here, but you pretty much have to jam it pre right?  At worst you are back to your original starting stack.

Some people are like slinkies.  Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #3 : Sep 03, 2010 at 02:00 »

I don't like sticking half your stack in without being able to see a showdown but in all likelihood you saved yourself some money from getting outflopped by AK. He could have something like QQ and is betting a scare card but that's pretty ballsy since your like could easily be AK.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
MsprinM
Regular
***
: 1447



« #4 : Sep 03, 2010 at 14:19 »

You should have shoved. I had 93o and was making a move.  >:D

But seriously his play preflop screams big hand. Might be aces might be queens. I would have shipped it.
 

Im full of sit, your full of sit, we're all full of sit- Dr. Angus
luckystraights
Regular
***
: 3161



« #5 : Sep 03, 2010 at 16:26 »

shove pre, as played call.... super duper busy will expand later
hayjamawas
Regular
***
: 826



« #6 : Sep 03, 2010 at 16:32 »

sorry i forgot to mention,  this was a Rush poker hand on FTP, if you all think that matters much
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #7 : Sep 03, 2010 at 17:20 »

sorry i forgot to mention,  this was a Rush poker hand on FTP, if you all think that matters much

You're no good on the Flop then. Probably AK.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
stooks99
Regular
***
: 1485



« #8 : Sep 03, 2010 at 20:22 »

I think given the stack sizes, my money still goes in on the flop.  But, it would have gotten in preflop, too.  Set-mining with Kings isn't a great play.

When you kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.  -- Winston Churchill

www.deadmoneypoker.webs.com
luckystraights
Regular
***
: 3161



« #9 : Sep 03, 2010 at 20:23 »

sorry i forgot to mention,  this was a Rush poker hand on FTP, if you all think that matters much

You're no good on the Flop then. Probably AK.

+1, as played I call in a standard game, as I've seen QQ-JJ plus a ton of garbage ship here and your getting what looks to be 3:1 vs an unk, tho I ship pre.

This being rush makes it an unfortunate check fold imo
MsprinM
Regular
***
: 1447



« #10 : Sep 03, 2010 at 20:46 »

This being rush makes it an unfortunate check fold imo

What she said.

Im full of sit, your full of sit, we're all full of sit- Dr. Angus
stooks99
Regular
***
: 1485



« #11 : Sep 03, 2010 at 21:55 »

This being rush makes it an unfortunate check fold imo

What she said.

I can see the points.  But, micro stakes on Rush and we're calling this a fold getting 3 to 1?  We can never put in what we put in pre flop and then fold to this bet on the flop unless we have a dead read that he has a random Ace....and since it's Rush, we can't have that read.

When you kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.  -- Winston Churchill

www.deadmoneypoker.webs.com
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #12 : Sep 03, 2010 at 21:59 »

This being rush makes it an unfortunate check fold imo

What she said.

I can see the points.  But, micro stakes on Rush and we're calling this a fold getting 3 to 1?  We can never put in what we put in pre flop and then fold to this bet on the flop unless we have a dead read that he has a random Ace....and since it's Rush, we can't have that read.

A third raise pre-flop in Rush and betting out with an Ace on the Flop? I don't have numbers to back this up but I'd be surprised if 3:1 is good enough to call down there.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
stooks99
Regular
***
: 1485



« #13 : Sep 03, 2010 at 22:35 »

This being rush makes it an unfortunate check fold imo

What she said.

I can see the points.  But, micro stakes on Rush and we're calling this a fold getting 3 to 1?  We can never put in what we put in pre flop and then fold to this bet on the flop unless we have a dead read that he has a random Ace....and since it's Rush, we can't have that read.

A third raise pre-flop in Rush and betting out with an Ace on the Flop? I don't have numbers to back this up but I'd be surprised if 3:1 is good enough to call down there.

Again, I really can see you guys' points.  But, look at this if you're the other player.  You have half your money in the middle, are you ever not putting your money in here on the flop?  I think it's very reasonable for him to have any pair. 

Also, let's please keep in mind this is very low limit poker.  The players are going to show up with anything.  He doesn't have to have an ace here, folks.

When you kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.  -- Winston Churchill

www.deadmoneypoker.webs.com
MsprinM
Regular
***
: 1447



« #14 : Sep 04, 2010 at 00:42 »

No he doesn't have to have an ace.  He could be leading out weak there hoping you will fold.
 Its one of those better safe than sorry scenarios. You don't like to fold but as played I think it is better to save the chips and move onto the next hand and or go get a stiff drink and hope you don't wake the family up screaming at the screen. Or is that just me?

Im full of sit, your full of sit, we're all full of sit- Dr. Angus
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #15 : Sep 04, 2010 at 02:32 »

This being rush makes it an unfortunate check fold imo

What she said.

I can see the points.  But, micro stakes on Rush and we're calling this a fold getting 3 to 1?  We can never put in what we put in pre flop and then fold to this bet on the flop unless we have a dead read that he has a random Ace....and since it's Rush, we can't have that read.

A third raise pre-flop in Rush and betting out with an Ace on the Flop? I don't have numbers to back this up but I'd be surprised if 3:1 is good enough to call down there.

Again, I really can see you guys' points.  But, look at this if you're the other player.  You have half your money in the middle, are you ever not putting your money in here on the flop?  I think it's very reasonable for him to have any pair. 

Also, let's please keep in mind this is very low limit poker.  The players are going to show up with anything.  He doesn't have to have an ace here, folks.

He doesn't *have* to have an Ace but how hard is for him to have one? A lot easier than him having QQ or even JJ. Maybe he's getting out of line with something as bad as AJ but you're still behind on the Flop.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
luckystraights
Regular
***
: 3161



« #16 : Sep 04, 2010 at 05:21 »

In my very very very limited expereince of 10nl rush, and everything I've heard about rush of all level's, the biggest draw back of it is that everyone is a nit, even the fish, there is a huge lack of action.

I was too tired to check if this was btn vs blinds or perhaps even co vs btn, in that scenario I think a call is okay, but outside of LP battles I believe this to be an unpleasent but snap fold in rush, but much more of a hmmmm wonder what he has this time snap call in a non rush game of equivelent stakes.

stooks99
Regular
***
: 1485



« #17 : Sep 04, 2010 at 09:55 »

No he doesn't have to have an ace.  He could be leading out weak there hoping you will fold.
 Its one of those better safe than sorry scenarios. You don't like to fold but as played I think it is better to save the chips and move onto the next hand and or go get a stiff drink and hope you don't wake the family up screaming at the screen. Or is that just me?

He has 98 percent of his money in the middle, I wouldn't call that a weak lead.


Also, I know Aces are scary cards, folks.  I'm just saying that we were very quick to disregard the fact that he could have any hand that doesn't have an ace in it.  Mathematically, it's not easier for him to have an ace than anything else.  I really am never folding this for $2.50

When you kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.  -- Winston Churchill

www.deadmoneypoker.webs.com
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #18 : Sep 04, 2010 at 12:00 »

No he doesn't have to have an ace.  He could be leading out weak there hoping you will fold.
 Its one of those better safe than sorry scenarios. You don't like to fold but as played I think it is better to save the chips and move onto the next hand and or go get a stiff drink and hope you don't wake the family up screaming at the screen. Or is that just me?

He has 98 percent of his money in the middle, I wouldn't call that a weak lead.


Also, I know Aces are scary cards, folks.  I'm just saying that we were very quick to disregard the fact that he could have any hand that doesn't have an ace in it.  Mathematically, it's not easier for him to have an ace than anything else.  I really am never folding this for $2.50

98%...50%...same thing. And yes, he might not have an Ace but does he have an Ace less than 25% of the time in Rush poker after putting in a third raise?

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
MsprinM
Regular
***
: 1447



« #19 : Sep 04, 2010 at 12:06 »

Maybe weak lead isnt the right term to use.

Oh you are right I am definitely going to think about calling. But my experiences with Rush poker is that that there is little to no bluffing. If they are betting they tend to have it.

If it wasn't Rush Poker i am pretty sure id call there and then throw something heavy at the wall when he turned over AQo.

Im full of sit, your full of sit, we're all full of sit- Dr. Angus
stooks99
Regular
***
: 1485



« #20 : Sep 04, 2010 at 13:55 »

No he doesn't have to have an ace.  He could be leading out weak there hoping you will fold.
 Its one of those better safe than sorry scenarios. You don't like to fold but as played I think it is better to save the chips and move onto the next hand and or go get a stiff drink and hope you don't wake the family up screaming at the screen. Or is that just me?

He has 98 percent of his money in the middle, I wouldn't call that a weak lead.


Also, I know Aces are scary cards, folks.  I'm just saying that we were very quick to disregard the fact that he could have any hand that doesn't have an ace in it.  Mathematically, it's not easier for him to have an ace than anything else.  I really am never folding this for $2.50

98%...50%...same thing. And yes, he might not have an Ace but does he have an Ace less than 25% of the time in Rush poker after putting in a third raise?

This  is a valid point.  But, lets turn it around.  Are we 75% sure he has one?

When you kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.  -- Winston Churchill

www.deadmoneypoker.webs.com
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #21 : Sep 04, 2010 at 14:09 »

No he doesn't have to have an ace.  He could be leading out weak there hoping you will fold.
 Its one of those better safe than sorry scenarios. You don't like to fold but as played I think it is better to save the chips and move onto the next hand and or go get a stiff drink and hope you don't wake the family up screaming at the screen. Or is that just me?

He has 98 percent of his money in the middle, I wouldn't call that a weak lead.


Also, I know Aces are scary cards, folks.  I'm just saying that we were very quick to disregard the fact that he could have any hand that doesn't have an ace in it.  Mathematically, it's not easier for him to have an ace than anything else.  I really am never folding this for $2.50

98%...50%...same thing. And yes, he might not have an Ace but does he have an Ace less than 25% of the time in Rush poker after putting in a third raise?

This  is a valid point.  But, lets turn it around.  Are we 75% sure he has one?

Rush Poker, 9 handed table, MP1 putting in the first and third raises, then leading out on and Ace high Flop. Yeah, personally, I'm >75% sure he has one.

I don't want this to come across the wrong way and I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, but how many hands of Rush poker have you played?

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
stooks99
Regular
***
: 1485



« #22 : Sep 04, 2010 at 15:00 »

No he doesn't have to have an ace.  He could be leading out weak there hoping you will fold.
 Its one of those better safe than sorry scenarios. You don't like to fold but as played I think it is better to save the chips and move onto the next hand and or go get a stiff drink and hope you don't wake the family up screaming at the screen. Or is that just me?

He has 98 percent of his money in the middle, I wouldn't call that a weak lead.


Also, I know Aces are scary cards, folks.  I'm just saying that we were very quick to disregard the fact that he could have any hand that doesn't have an ace in it.  Mathematically, it's not easier for him to have an ace than anything else.  I really am never folding this for $2.50

98%...50%...same thing. And yes, he might not have an Ace but does he have an Ace less than 25% of the time in Rush poker after putting in a third raise?

This  is a valid point.  But, lets turn it around.  Are we 75% sure he has one?

Rush Poker, 9 handed table, MP1 putting in the first and third raises, then leading out on and Ace high Flop. Yeah, personally, I'm >75% sure he has one.

I don't want this to come across the wrong way and I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, but how many hands of Rush poker have you played?

Without looking up, between 2k and 4k

When you kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.  -- Winston Churchill

www.deadmoneypoker.webs.com
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #23 : Sep 04, 2010 at 15:36 »

No he doesn't have to have an ace.  He could be leading out weak there hoping you will fold.
 Its one of those better safe than sorry scenarios. You don't like to fold but as played I think it is better to save the chips and move onto the next hand and or go get a stiff drink and hope you don't wake the family up screaming at the screen. Or is that just me?

He has 98 percent of his money in the middle, I wouldn't call that a weak lead.


Also, I know Aces are scary cards, folks.  I'm just saying that we were very quick to disregard the fact that he could have any hand that doesn't have an ace in it.  Mathematically, it's not easier for him to have an ace than anything else.  I really am never folding this for $2.50

98%...50%...same thing. And yes, he might not have an Ace but does he have an Ace less than 25% of the time in Rush poker after putting in a third raise?

This  is a valid point.  But, lets turn it around.  Are we 75% sure he has one?

Rush Poker, 9 handed table, MP1 putting in the first and third raises, then leading out on and Ace high Flop. Yeah, personally, I'm >75% sure he has one.

I don't want this to come across the wrong way and I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, but how many hands of Rush poker have you played?

Without looking up, between 2k and 4k

After you play a large amount of hands I would do some data mining and see how often KK is good in that situation. And I highly doubt that 3:1 odds are good enough for a call.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
Nerre
Regular
***
: 1126


« #24 : Sep 06, 2010 at 02:16 »

Rush Poker, 9 handed table, MP1 putting in the first and third raises, then leading out on and Ace high Flop. Yeah, personally, I'm >75% sure he has one.

I play a lot of fun money games (because when playing on my Android cell phone I don't want to risk real money when the connection suddenly drops) and when I see play like that it is very often the player is trying to get others to fold. A lot of people seem to misunderstand the "bluffing" part of poker and think it means "bet big when you don't have anything, and other will fold".
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #25 : Sep 06, 2010 at 10:01 »

Rush Poker, 9 handed table, MP1 putting in the first and third raises, then leading out on and Ace high Flop. Yeah, personally, I'm >75% sure he has one.

I play a lot of fun money games (because when playing on my Android cell phone I don't want to risk real money when the connection suddenly drops) and when I see play like that it is very often the player is trying to get others to fold. A lot of people seem to misunderstand the "bluffing" part of poker and think it means "bet big when you don't have anything, and other will fold".

I agree that many people misunderstand the bluffing aspect of poker. I would also say that there are vastly more people executing inadvisable bluffs when using play money than in 9 handed Rush.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
Nerre
Regular
***
: 1126


« #26 : Sep 07, 2010 at 01:54 »

Micro stakes don't differ much from play money in my experience.

In play money games your bankroll is usually limited (if you bust your bankroll you can usually not reload more than once a day), but in micro stakes game players have their whole wallet to reload with.
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #27 : Sep 07, 2010 at 05:19 »

Micro stakes don't differ much from play money in my experience.

In play money games your bankroll is usually limited (if you bust your bankroll you can usually not reload more than once a day), but in micro stakes game players have their whole wallet to reload with.

Well, the players who are rolled to play at 1/2 NL games can reload just as easily as at microstakes but I wouldn't say that means their four bet range is as loose a play money games. And in Rush poker it is so easy to ditch crappy hands or even marginal ones you'll find that the four bet range is pretty darn tight and I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that it might even be tighter than play money games.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
NotFadeAway
Regular
***
: 4493


4 8 15 16 23 42


« #28 : Sep 08, 2010 at 02:52 »

A few thoughts:
-Rush poker is full of nitty nits, so he probably has an ace.
-Even nitty nits will put their stack in with JJ or QQ here.
-Price is good and folding here is very exploitable.
-Just shove pre.  He would have called.  Trying to trap or whatever when he has so much of his stack already in is unnecessary and just leads to bad spots like this one.

Anyway, just shove pre, and, as played, probably call the shove on the flop.

Take my love.  Take my land.  Take me where I cannot stand.  I don't care.  I'm still free.  You can't take the sky from me.
holdemholmes
Regular
***
: 1889


« #29 : Sep 08, 2010 at 11:45 »

-Just shove pre.  He would have called.  Trying to trap or whatever when he has so much of his stack already in is unnecessary and just leads to bad spots like this one.
Bingo.

"...she set you up with the old check and raise...."
Nerre
Regular
***
: 1126


« #30 : Sep 09, 2010 at 02:13 »

Well, the players who are rolled to play at 1/2 NL games can reload just as easily as at microstakes

It's a matter of the size of the reload. Is it like "another beer" or "another bottle of whiskey" or maybe "a new car"?
stooks99
Regular
***
: 1485



« #31 : Sep 09, 2010 at 19:01 »

A few thoughts:
-Rush poker is full of nitty nits, so he probably has an ace.
-Even nitty nits will put their stack in with JJ or QQ here.
-Price is good and folding here is very exploitable.
-Just shove pre.  He would have called.  Trying to trap or whatever when he has so much of his stack already in is unnecessary and just leads to bad spots like this one.

Anyway, just shove pre, and, as played, probably call the shove on the flop.

Finally! A voice of reason.

When you kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.  -- Winston Churchill

www.deadmoneypoker.webs.com
skingfool
Regular
***
: 268


« #32 : Nov 12, 2010 at 13:48 »

Hey guys and gals.  I don't know what "Rush poker" is.  Please educate me.  Thanks, Skingfool

It's morally wrong to let a sucker keep money.
-Canada Bill Jones
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #33 : Nov 12, 2010 at 16:16 »

Hey guys and gals.  I don't know what "Rush poker" is.  Please educate me.  Thanks, Skingfool

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rush+poker

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
austin5string
Global Moderator
Regular
****
: 8206


« #34 : Nov 12, 2010 at 16:47 »

Hey guys and gals.  I don't know what "Rush poker" is.  Please educate me.  Thanks, Skingfool

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rush+poker

That site still cracks me up.. haha

Dude is definitely weird.. If it's a bot, it's a pretty good one..  If it's a person, it's a pretty bad one.. LOL
hayjamawas
Regular
***
: 826



« #35 : Nov 16, 2010 at 16:55 »

Hey guys and gals.  I don't know what "Rush poker" is.  Please educate me.  Thanks, Skingfool

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rush+poker

http://tinyurl.com/abummt   ;D
Smoore12
Player
**
: 5


« #36 : Dec 08, 2010 at 22:16 »

haha about the links and back to the hand.  Based on this being Rush Poker - I would lean even more to shoving pre-flop.
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