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: Buying the Button  ( 4997 )
William
Regular
***
: 2303


Bloody Marvellous


« : Aug 01, 2010 at 17:56 »

I just ran across this on the internet: Buying the button.
What are your thoughts, and would you consider using it at your games.

Basically what it is:

A
B
You (Away)
D = BB
E = SB
F = Button

You (just) missed the BB and are now returning to, or joining, the table in the SB position. The Dealer offers you the option to buy the Button.

A
B = BB
You (Returning/Joining)
D = SB
E = Button
F

You put up the SB and BB. The BB is live, the SB dead in the pot. No additional SB or BB are posted.

A
B
You (Buying the Button) = BB (live) + SB (dead)
D = Button
E
F

The next hand you get the button and the blinds continue as normal.

A = BB
B = SB
You = Button
D
E
F

I hope my explanation made sense.

I'll play you in any game you name for any amount you can count.
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #1 : Aug 01, 2010 at 20:08 »

Yup. We use it all the time. The returning player would have to post SB and BB anyway so they aren't out anything plus they get to play sooner instead of having to wait for the button to pass them. Player to the left ends up getting a discount on blinds that round so he's not complaining. Everybody wins.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
holdemholmes
Regular
***
: 1889


« #2 : Aug 01, 2010 at 23:36 »

I have seen this done a lot as well...seems to work out well for everyone involved.

"...she set you up with the old check and raise...."
Dr. Neau
Regular
***
: 9678


Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #3 : Oct 05, 2010 at 16:52 »

I thought buying the button was only possible when you are coming in between the small blind and the button.  In William's example, one of the players appears to get out of the SB.

And anyway, in William's example, wouldn't you simply post the BB and get it?

I see the following situations (in all situations, hand has not yet started):

Situation 1 (not buying the button, simply posting the BB in turn):
A - UTG
B - BB
You
D - SB
E - Button
F - Cutoff
Answer: You simply post the BB and are the BB.  'nuff said

Situation 2 (Buying the Button), part 1. The following is about to happen but you want to play!:
A - BB
B - SB
You - just arrived and missed the BB
D - Button
E - Cutoff
F - Cutoff - 1
Answer: You buy the button

Situation 2, part 2.  You buy the button, the hand is now like this:
A - UTG + 1
B - UTG
You - Live BB, dead SB
D - Button
E - Cutoff
F - Cutoff - 1

Situation 2, part 3.  The *next* hand is now like this:
A - BB
B - SB
You - Button
D - Cutoff
E - Cutoff - 1
F - Cutoff - 2

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
William
Regular
***
: 2303


Bloody Marvellous


« #4 : Oct 08, 2010 at 05:40 »

I was describing a game in progress. The chance of you arriving at the table exactly when the hand is finished and the deck is being shuffled for the next is very small. It's far more likely that you are returning to the table when a hand is in progress.

I'll play you in any game you name for any amount you can count.
Dr. Neau
Regular
***
: 9678


Dr. Neau is a player of the pokers


« #5 : Oct 08, 2010 at 09:24 »

I was describing a game in progress. The chance of you arriving at the table exactly when the hand is finished and the deck is being shuffled for the next is very small. It's far more likely that you are returning to the table when a hand is in progress.

Right, but you can't join a hand in progress.  The question isn't when you arrive...it's when do you want to hop back in.

And the way you described it was confusing, so I thought I'd clarify.

(not a real doctor)

Concentrate on winning your tournament...let Dr. Neau manage it.

http://drneau.com
R-Ho
Regular
***
: 2839



« #6 : Dec 18, 2010 at 18:25 »

I just ran across this on the internet: Buying the button.
What are your thoughts, and would you consider using it at your games.

Basically what it is:

A
B
You (Away)
D = BB
E = SB
F = Button

You (just) missed the BB and are now returning to, or joining, the table in the SB position. The Dealer offers you the option to buy the Button.

A
B = BB
You (Returning/Joining)
D = SB
E = Button
F

You put up the SB and BB. The BB is live, the SB dead in the pot. No additional SB or BB are posted.

A
B
You (Buying the Button) = BB (live) + SB (dead)
D = Button
E
F

The next hand you get the button and the blinds continue as normal.

A = BB
B = SB
You = Button
D
E
F

I hope my explanation made sense.

re Neau's comment about someone missing
their blind.

I think you made a mistake where you say "no additional SB or BB are posted." You are coming in, buying the button or whatever, at the position of SB. But, nevertheless, the player behind you must post a BB (therein lies the discrepancy-since you say 'no other' is required).

I'm sorry if I'm off base or being totally obvious, I'm working from a mobile and can see only about one twentieth of the screen...

R-Ho
William
Regular
***
: 2303


Bloody Marvellous


« #7 : Dec 18, 2010 at 18:51 »

re Neau's comment about someone missing
their blind.

I think you made a mistake where you say "no additional SB or BB are posted." You are coming in, buying the button or whatever, at the position of SB. But, nevertheless, the player behind you must post a BB (therein lies the discrepancy-since you say 'no other' is required).

I'm sorry if I'm off base or being totally obvious, I'm working from a mobile and can see only about one twentieth of the screen...

R-Ho

Maybe I'm not understanding your post completely, but allow me to clarify.

When you're buying the button in the SB position, you are posting both the big and the small blind. The person to your left isn't posting the BB because he already posted the BB the hand before.

After the hand where you bought the button, you receive the button you just bought. The person to your left (who last hand didn't post, but the hand before posted the BB) now posts the SB, and the player to his left posts the BB.

This allows you to play an extra hand.

I'll play you in any game you name for any amount you can count.
R-Ho
Regular
***
: 2839



« #8 : Dec 18, 2010 at 19:34 »

re Neau's comment about someone missing
their blind.

I think you made a mistake where you say "no additional SB or BB are posted." You are coming in, buying the button or whatever, at the position of SB. But, nevertheless, the player behind you must post a BB (therein lies the discrepancy-since you say 'no other' is required).

I'm sorry if I'm off base or being totally obvious, I'm working from a mobile and can see only about one twentieth of the screen...

R-Ho

Maybe I'm not understanding your post completely, but allow me to clarify.

When you're buying the button in the SB position, you are posting both the big and the small blind. The person to your left isn't posting the BB because he already posted the BB the hand before.

After the hand where you bought the button, you receive the button you just bought. The person to your left (who last hand didn't post, but the hand before posted the BB) now posts the SB, and the player to his left posts the BB.

This allows you to play an extra hand.
If your suggested procedure keeps eveyone paying their blinds in order, then I'm OK with it. No need to beat the diagrams to death. R-Ho
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #9 : Dec 18, 2010 at 20:33 »

re Neau's comment about someone missing
their blind.

I think you made a mistake where you say "no additional SB or BB are posted." You are coming in, buying the button or whatever, at the position of SB. But, nevertheless, the player behind you must post a BB (therein lies the discrepancy-since you say 'no other' is required).

I'm sorry if I'm off base or being totally obvious, I'm working from a mobile and can see only about one twentieth of the screen...

R-Ho

Maybe I'm not understanding your post completely, but allow me to clarify.

When you're buying the button in the SB position, you are posting both the big and the small blind. The person to your left isn't posting the BB because he already posted the BB the hand before.

After the hand where you bought the button, you receive the button you just bought. The person to your left (who last hand didn't post, but the hand before posted the BB) now posts the SB, and the player to his left posts the BB.

This allows you to play an extra hand.
If your suggested procedure keeps eveyone paying their blinds in order, then I'm OK with it. No need to beat the diagrams to death. R-Ho

It does disrupt the blind order. The player to the returning player's left misses his BB...or to paraphrase from Office Space...he wouldn't say that he's actually *missing* the BB, har har. It is an aberration from normal blind rotation but I have yet to hear anyone complain about getting the BB paid for him or from anyone else at the table.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
R-Ho
Regular
***
: 2839



« #10 : Dec 19, 2010 at 01:20 »

OK, I just read the link you provided in your OP, and yes we allow it (buying the button). I was thrown off by your (william's) diagram that appears to show the returning player between the BB and SB.   
William
Regular
***
: 2303


Bloody Marvellous


« #11 : Dec 19, 2010 at 03:45 »

I understand that it's a complex issue, and it's a difficult to explain properly, but no-one skips a blind.

Dr. Neau thought the player to my left skips the SB, but he pays it after I bought the button.
R-Ho and Martini think the player to my left skips the BB, but he posted that on the hand before I returned to the table.

Maybe I should've explained that each situation describes a hand in play, like:

Hand 1:
A
B
You (Away)
D = BB
E = SB
F = Button

Hand 2:
You (just) missed the BB and are now returning to, or joining, the table in the SB position.

A
B = BB
You (Returning/Joining the table. You're not allowed to play since the hand is in progress)
D = SB
E = Button
F

Hand 3:
The Dealer offers you the option to buy the Button. You put up the SB and BB. The BB is live, the SB dead in the pot. No additional SB or BB are posted.

A
B
You (Buying the Button) = BB (live) + SB (dead)
D = Button
E
F

Hand 4:
The next hand you get the button and the blinds continue as normal.

A = BB
B = SB
You = Button
D
E
F

As you can see:
Player E posts the BB (Hand 0), the SB (Hand 1), and gets the button (Hand 2),
Player D posts the BB (Hand 1), the SB (Hand 2), and gets the button (Hand 3),
You post the BB (Hand 3), the SB (Hand 3), and get the button (Hand 4),
and Player B posts the BB (Hand 2), the SB (Hand 4), and gets the button (Hand 5).

I'll play you in any game you name for any amount you can count.
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #12 : Dec 19, 2010 at 04:07 »

I stand corrected. Thanks for the illustration William. I dismissed the fact that the player to the left had already posted his BB before the return of the player buying the button. Though R-Ho's concern is only partially addressed since the sequence of blind payment is altered when buying the button even though everyone ends up paying the same amount in the end.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
William
Regular
***
: 2303


Bloody Marvellous


« #13 : Dec 19, 2010 at 04:48 »

You could look at it as an extra hand being played where only one player has chips at stake before the cards are dealt, before the game returns to normal.

I'll play you in any game you name for any amount you can count.
R-Ho
Regular
***
: 2839



« #14 : Dec 28, 2010 at 00:34 »

I stand corrected. Thanks for the illustration William. I dismissed the fact that the player to the left had already posted his BB before the return of the player buying the button. Though R-Ho's concern is only partially addressed since the sequence of blind payment is altered when buying the button even though everyone ends up paying the same amount in the end.

I am satisfied that everyone pays their correct blinds in due time. That a player buying the button delays someone's blind by one hand is no problem
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