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: What would you do?  ( 3437 )
ronnieg32
Player
**
: 19


« : Jun 26, 2009 at 21:16 »

Here is a scenario that I wanted to get your opinions on.  You're playing at a $3-$5 game with about $500 in front of you.  You pick up aces in the small blind with three limpers already.  You raise to $30.  Two callers.   Flop is 3-J-Q rainbow.  You bet $40.  One fold and the button raises you to $150.  This guy has been  known to do that with the goods and he has also been known to play a lot of weaker hands on the button.  Should I be thinking that is very easy to get away from the aces at this point?  Should I be thinking reraise?  Is folding the right thing most of the time?  Do you agree with my actions prior to the reraise?  Your thoughts please.

Thanks,
Ron
Detroitdad
MTPL
Regular
***
: 13474



« #1 : Jun 26, 2009 at 21:29 »

Hi Ronnie,

If I haven't welcomed you to HPT, welcome............

The highest cash stakes I play is 1/2, 200 buy in. I will run with that experience.

The pre flop bet isn't bad, I would have gone with more. I'm probably betting 45-55 in this spot. Honestly, you will be out of position the rest of the hand.

You bet 40, he raised to 150, that puts about 215 in the pot. How much does he have behind him?

Since you have him on a wide range on the button................I prolly push all in right here.

I'm sure this is a bad play, and several other HPT'ers will probably post better ways to play this hand.

B

What kind of chips/cards do you own? any cards you want to sell  ;)

The Lions will be the death of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ronnieg32
Player
**
: 19


« #2 : Jun 26, 2009 at 21:51 »

Thanks for the welcome DD.  I hear that you are the one to talk to when it comes to getting pictures downloaded on this site.   I just ordered some custom chips from Gary at Unique and he is the one that told me your the man.  I will let you know in a couple of weeks when I get them.  Gary if you are reading this, I can't wait.  Anyways, back to my original post, at the start of the hand, the button had around $300 in front of him. 
Detroitdad
MTPL
Regular
***
: 13474



« #3 : Jun 26, 2009 at 21:56 »

What did you get from Gary?

I just got a crap load of chips from Gary. He is awesome to deal with. I've tried keeping it hush hush, but here is my thread with one or two pic's of my set from Gary.

http://forums.homepokertourney.com/index.php/topic,22305.msg257262/topicseen.html#new

Here is a contest where I'm giving away a sample set of them.

http://forums.homepokertourney.com/index.php/topic,22312.0.html

The Lions will be the death of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pauld22
Regular
***
: 2631



« #4 : Jun 26, 2009 at 21:59 »

With about $100 in the pot on the flop I would have made a bigger bet, probably ~3/4 pot.

The way it's played, you say he's know to do this "with the goods." What is "the goods" here?  Will he play this way pre flop with 33?  Does he come back over the top w/ JJ or QQ pre flop?

Does your $40 bet look, to him, like AQ/AJ and he's putting you to the test w/ KK?  He would have come back over the top w/ KK pre right?

Will he make this play with a draw (9/10)?  Would he have called pre with that?

I think pending a solid read on this player that screams monster I shove and cringe when he turns over QJ/33.

PS - I just read your reply to DD and see that he had ~$300 in front of him before the hand.  He has now put more than half his stack in the pot and re-raised a preflop raiser.  Sounds like he is committing to the hand and you have to be prepared to play for is stack. 


Some people are like slinkies.  Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
Detroitdad
MTPL
Regular
***
: 13474



« #5 : Jun 26, 2009 at 22:03 »

with 300 behind him, I think you play for all his money..............If your good on the flop, your hand might hold up, after all it isn't P*'s

The Lions will be the death of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ronnieg32
Player
**
: 19


« #6 : Jun 26, 2009 at 22:12 »

I think that when I say "the goods" I mean a hand like trips or two pair.  In this particular case, he turned over Q-J offsuit. (After I put him all in)  I think the only chance I had in that hand was to raise preflop to $50.  I think calling with Q-J off was a bit weak, but I guess he could have easily had pkt Jacks too.
pauld22
Regular
***
: 2631



« #7 : Jun 26, 2009 at 22:25 »

You should put the results in a spoiler so anyone else that wants to comment isn't privy to the knowledge.

Code: [Select]
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler]Tough to lay AA down there.  His re-raise back at you, and bet/stack ratio kind of hinted at 2pr/set though.  Again, a bigger bet on the flop is in order.  ~3/4 to full pot and he's forced to shove, telling most of what you need to know.

Tough break.  Reload and hope he does it again.  ;)[/spoiler]

Some people are like slinkies.  Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
Martini
Regular
***
: 9999



« #8 : Jun 27, 2009 at 00:25 »

Well, now that the cat's out of the bag I won't bother to spoiler my comments.

As the saying goes, you will either win a small pot or lose a big one with Aces. Remember, you have one pair and that is a very fragile hand. Granted, it is an overpair, but still just one pair.

You need to figure out what you want to do with your raise. If you want to deny people the correct odds to Set mine against your or to try to out flop you then you're going to need to raise more than you did. Sure you'll lose customers but you'll likely win the hand. I'll usually fire two bullets with Aces, a pre-flop raise and another bet on the Flop. If I get played back at too much I'll only proceed if I have the Nut Flush draw to fall back on, flop a Set, or if I feel I am good against a top pair based on the texture of the board.

If you have shown that you overvalue big pairs then you will get players (like me) who will call with very speculative hands in the hopes of out flopping you since you have essentially turned your hand face up pre-flop. Stacks need to be deep enough for that strategy to work and it only is effective against players who are wiling to go broke with one pair. Pot odds are horrible but implied odds are through the roof. Plus, once you have built that reputation for calling with anything against big pairs you also have bluff and semi-bluff opportunities based on what comes out on the board.

Big pairs are IMO one of the toughest hands to play in Hold'em. You are not the first nor will you be the last to go broke with Aces. Best thing you can do is to come to a forum like this and review the hand so you can tune your game for the next time.

(not a real alcoholic beverage)
luckystraights
Regular
***
: 3161



« #9 : Aug 05, 2009 at 14:18 »

In general I raise bigger in that spot, to at least $50 pre with 2 limper's, otherwise follow SPR guidelines (i suck, but $50 is a descent bet and will allow easier commitment).

If this is a non spewy TAG, u need to fold on the flop IMO, the only thing u beat is maybe a slow played KK, and that might not take such an aggressive line with a Q on the flop. If you call or re-raise your committing yourself in a thin value spot at best with a very nice, but very weak (given the action) 1 pr.

[This advise assumes this actually is a $500 BI game, if its actually a $25 game, or even a $200 game, stacking off maybe automatic, especially if u make it $50 to go pre]
luckystraights
Regular
***
: 3161



« #10 : Aug 05, 2009 at 14:35 »

Now that it thoroughly looks like I just copied what everyone else wrote lol, I'll add something else.

after making it $30 pre, on such a dry board u could check and go for a medium pot or to widen your perceived range, if the $300 stack gets involved, I'd then go for an AI C/R, or depending on the turn and your read either go for small value on the turn and river, commit on the turn and B t shove r, or chk t, and B river if villain checks back on the turn.

The first question you need to ask yourself on the flop (BEFORE U BET) is am I committed with my aces, if so bet and build a pot, if not, bet an amount u can B/F for or check, and if u want to commit to the hand with 1pr, then raise to at least $50 pre.
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