Probably a touchy subject, but who cares.....

[BigPair88]

Sunglasses.....What do u think?

Should they be allowed at the Poker Table?

Personally, I say no. I really enjoy the aspect of the game that entails reading people.
The eyes and that part of the face can give you a wealth of information. To hide it, I think, is an unfair advantage. I know, I know....I could wear them too and conceal my own eyes from other players. But that's not what the game is about.

I think, if you want to play the game the way I believe it was meant to be played, sit down, put your feet under the table, get some chips and go to it. Don't hide. Embrace the personal aspect of a live game with the interaction of the other players.

If you think you need sunglasses to hide some of your tells, you are going about it the wrong way. Become a student of non-verbal communication and learn how to conceal them. Learn what movements and positions mean to different players and embrace that information. Remember, it's a game. Play it.


Well, that's my two cents.

Your turn......

[Wedge Rock]

I don't wear them, but if you think it helps you (it doesn't) and you want to wear them, go for it.

Most of my reads come from body parts other than the eyes, so you're not helping yourself there.  I guess sunglasses allow you to disguise where *you* are looking, but that has limited application.

I don't favor a rule that excludes them, but that's just me.

[Martini]

Meh. If someone wants to wear them then that's their choice. I think people over-estimate the amount that sunglasses can hides tells.

[holdemholmes]

Meh. If someone wants to wear them then that's their choice. I think people over-estimate the amount that sunglasses can hides tells.

This is exactly my opinion. The looking down at the chips tell is highly overrated, and a lot of people tend to do it with or without a hand. The breathing/heartbeat tells seem to be way more accurate for me. As for a rule excluding them, I don't think it's necessary.

[Jaxen]

I've always been "whatever" on this issue. Actually tried wearing them in some big casino events. More often then not I'd get the 3 or 4 or 8 or 9 seat and I'm on the end of the table, and often had to flip them up/down to read the board. Or I just take them off at some point and they endup on my hat all day. Haven't played with glasses in years.

[Wedge Rock]

Correct.  And if you want to hide your eyes, use the brim or your hat or just look down.

[stooks99]

I don't wear them, but a rule excluding them is a bad idea, unless it becomes an issue of people cheating with them.  I think to say that sunglasses aren't in fair spirit of the game is a logical opinion, but it's an opinion.  As long as poker has been around, so have glasses to cover eyes.  I don't think it makes a person weak or afraid to wear them.  I know Negreanu and Brunson like to go off on tangents about wearing sunglasses being bad or whatever, but they have both worn them on more than one occasion....the pics are available online, and Negreanu wore them most of season 1 of HSP.  It's just a nice topic to bring up and get people rubbed the wrong way. 

Sunglasses are like lucky socks.  If you think they are helping you, then they probably are making you feel more comfortable, which is helping you. 

[ttttubby]

Not to take this too off topic, but there are a couple of posts in this thread talking about tells, and I would love some advice on what to look for. I've read caro's book of tells, and I catch a few tells from time to time on the guys I play with, but it just feels like I have to absorb a metric ton of information at the table to be able to get good reads. I think the mind reading stuff is one of the more interesting parts of poker and I'd like to be able to do it better.

[stooks99]

Not to take this too off topic, but there are a couple of posts in this thread talking about tells, and I would love some advice on what to look for. I've read caro's book of tells, and I catch a few tells from time to time on the guys I play with, but it just feels like I have to absorb a metric ton of information at the table to be able to get good reads. I think the mind reading stuff is one of the more interesting parts of poker and I'd like to be able to do it better.

Most semi-competent players are not going to have big glaring tells that you can get deep soul reads on.  Probably a better thing to look for is betting patterns and what a player's tendencies are with varied strength hands.  It's still a lot of paying attention, but not as ridiculous as looking for someone scratching their ears or sniffling. 

[Martini]

@ttttubby
You might also want to take a look at Phil Hellmuth's Read 'em and Reap book. http://www.amazon.com/Phil-Hellmuth-Presents-Read-Reap/dp/0061198595 There are plenty of other things to keep an eye on if they have shades on. And you don't need to absorb everything, just be observant and note things to yourself. One thing to do is try to figure out who has what in hands that you are not involved in. You're not doing anything else anyway so it's a good way to sharpen your game while you would otherwise just be sitting around.

[KPrather]

I'm whatever on sunglasses. I would sooner put forth a rule banning headphones or earpieces. They actually do detriment the game: they slow it down.

[holdemholmes]

I'm whatever on sunglasses. I would sooner put forth a rule banning headphones or earpieces. They actually do detriment the game: they slow it down.

I agree, however i dont think all should be punished. I feel like wearing headphones on one ear is ok as you can still hear what is going on. Once it becomes a distraction I think it crosses the line.

[stooks99]

I'm whatever on sunglasses. I would sooner put forth a rule banning headphones or earpieces. They actually do detriment the game: they slow it down.

I agree, however i dont think all should be punished. I feel like wearing headphones on one ear is ok as you can still hear what is going on. Once it becomes a distraction I think it crosses the line.

One more reason to have a 'shot clock'.  That way that no matter what is going on, if you aren't paying attention because of your earbuds or sunglasses, when your time is up, it's up.

[Wedge Rock]

I think a shot clock would slow the game down more...  I'll bet more people wait longer if they have 2 minutes to act (or whatever)...

[stooks99]

I think a shot clock would slow the game down more...  I'll bet more people wait longer if they have 2 minutes to act (or whatever)...

I'm not going to say it's impossible, but I don't see any real reason that it would happen.

[Nerre]

I started to think about a house rule about stalling the game when posting blinds or when not facing a bet.

I can understand that someone facing a large bet might need some time to consider whether to call or fold. But someone who is posting blinds or someone who is not facing a bet (or just facing the blinds) shouldn't have to think very long before they act.

[Wedge Rock]

A dedicated dealer who will prompt the action ("check or bet" and "call, raise or fold") > shot clock

[ricochet913]

I am actually one who likes to wear the sunglasses.  I use them more to block out the lights in the room.  I tend to get a headache after a few hours of play.  I am the only one in my league that wears them on a regular basis.  Besides, you can see my eyes through them anyways so it's not like I am trying to hide anything.

[BigPair88]

TTTtubby, look for some literature by Joe Navarro. He is an ex- FBI guy who wrote a book with Helmuth ( but don't hold that against him). He has a lot of articles that have a lot of good information about non-verbal communication. There are also quite a few books on non-verbal communication, body language and so on. They are actually pretty good reads too. Not only can they help you at the poker table, but also in job interviews as well as everyday life. It's interesting stuff if that is your bag. I happen to enjoy reading books like that. They make great bathroom reading material...just don't let your legs fall asleep!!!

Stay a student of the game my friends....

[Martini]

TTTtubby, look for some literature by Joe Navarro. He is an ex- FBI guy who wrote a book with Helmuth ( but don't hold that against him). He has a lot of articles that have a lot of good information about non-verbal communication. There are also quite a few books on non-verbal communication, body language and so on. They are actually pretty good reads too. Not only can they help you at the poker table, but also in job interviews as well as everyday life. It's interesting stuff if that is your bag. I happen to enjoy reading books like that. They make great bathroom reading material...just don't let your legs fall asleep!!!

Stay a student of the game my friends....

FYI, to avoid any confusion, that is the Phil Hellmuth but I was referring to earlier in the thread. Phil Hellmuth and Joe Navarro both put their names on the book.

[Milo]

Both names are on it, but the substance comes from Joe Navarro.  Took in one of his seminars a couple years ago, and bought the book as a result.  Worth every penny.

For the record, I love players who wear shades.  The more insecure a player is, the better I like them . . .

[ttttubby]

Big thanks to everyone who recommended Joe navarro's book. I picked up read em and reap and ended up killing it at my small stakes home game. Once I knew what to look for I had a huge advantage.

[tb_bucc]

SG are OK; I don't but don't care when others do. Eyes are hard to read anyway.

[troysteelerfan]

I don't want to take this off topic to far but I feel this is close - reading this thread reminded me of an interview I saw one time with (I think if I remember right, Greg Raymer) - he talked about reading people at the table and the problem he talked about was reading someone who was "projecting a really strong hand"- but the player just wasn't that good and the player was overplaying their hand....sort of like....player A bets a str8 he has (player B doesn't know) while Player B has a small flush - player A not even realizing that a flush is possible (he is missing it) and thus player B lays down his hand - I hope I am making sense on what I am trying to get across - I see this a lot in one of the home games I play in - they overvalue hands a great deal and I sometimes make crying calls that are right and ones that are incorrect....I try to watch for betting patterns, tells, etc at this game (its a regular group and I win consistently) but it still perplexes me what you can do with folks (other than make the crying calls) who TRULY believe their hand is strong/good and aren't really trying to bluff or steal a hand....

[BigPair88]

Troy, you're right. It's hard to read someone who hasn't even read the hand correctly. I understand what you are saying 100 %. As far as Player A knows, the feel they have a very strong hand. If that is what your read is telling you, then your read is absolutely correct. It's Player A's perception of their hand that is off. The only thing you can do about it is carefully analyse your opponents ability level and keep that in consideration. Also, if it is just you and the other player in the hand, get them talking. Make them aware of the possible flush and look for their reaction. If they are as unaware of the potential hands out there as we think they are, then they are probably as unaware of the physical tells that they are giving The Limbic Brain has a mind of its own. Remember, what did Joe say was the most honest part of the body??

[bigstu]

I wear them around 80% of the time...I'm sensitive to light changes and some of the card rooms I play are very bright or don't have uniform lighting.  In a couple of the places I play daylight comes in from the dog/horse track and looking into sunlight and then the cards I find extremely difficult!  On the other hand If I'm sitting in a dark spot and can barely see my cards even without my glasses!

[Milo]

Couple years back I almost bought a pair of polarized Tank Commander goggles that were surplus Soviet military.  Complete high gloss mirror finish, leather straps.  Wanted to whip them out the next time I saw a guy with shades on at a home game . . .

[William]

You should try a set of these

(Click to show/hide)

[Milo]

The lenses on the ones I was talking about were about that size, I kid you not.
  Like ski goggles . . .

[BigPair88]

William, if she comes with the goggles, I'm in!!!!