Moving Button

[BigPair88]

OK. I thought I understood this rule, but I confused now.

I understand when there is a player eliminated and you have a dead button or a dead small blind. I got that one.

But, what I can't get to sink in is the need for multiple Big Blinds.

Now, I get that the button needs to keep moving around the table to each player and you always need to have the BB...der.

An example shown is that when the SB is eliminated, the button is moved to the next live player, essentially the player who was the BB in the previous hand, and becomes the button AND the SB with the two players to their left as Big Blinds.

That's what I don't get.

Wouln't it be a dead button with the player who was the BB is now the SB and the player to their left the BB ALONE?

The example then confuses me further showing the next hand as follows...
The button is now moved again to the next live player who was just the first BB in the previous hand, is now the button AND the SB, with the player to their left as another SB and the player to THEIR left as the BB.

It isn't until the following hand that the button, SB and BB are back to their regular status.

These examples are shown under the "Button Help" tab on the left menu here on HPT.

Holy Crap I'm even more confused now that I typed all that out.

Would someone please dummy it down for my simple mind.

I understand WHAT it is stating but I don't understand WHY it is stating what it is stating

[Jaxen]

Help is on the way ...

Picture it: You have the button. Phil Hellmuth is in the small blind, I'm the big blind. In this hand, Hellmuth busts out. After he finishes his tirade, blames another northern European and leaves the table, we go to the next hand. We'll put the button on Phil's now-empty seat to ensure I don't miss a small blind, and the player to my left is the big blind. Effectively, you have the button for back-to-back hands.

So let's say on the next hand, which I'm the SB, the big blind busts out. The hand that follows it would just have one BB and no SB, to ensure that the person who is supposed to be the BB doesn't miss the BB. And then on the hand after that, we put the button in the empty seat of that BB who got busted.

There are NEVER multiple big blinds in a hand -- at least in a tournament, although sometimes there is no small blind.

Trust me, when you see it applied on the table, it's much simpler than the explanation.

[Junior]

Help is on the way ...

There are NEVER multiple big blinds in a hand -- at least in a tournament, although sometimes there is no small blind.

Although I've never seen it played, and I personally would never use it this does happen if you use the 'moving button' rule.  http://www.homepokertourney.com/button.htm
The example explains it very easily.  It simply keeps the button moving to live players but also doesn't allow players to miss a blind.  It is much more confusing to follow sometimes as opposed to the 'dead button' rule, which almost ALL tournaments use.  As Jaxen said, you likely won't see it in a tournament but may see it used in a cash game

[Muley05]

I only use the dead button in my tournaments but I understand the moving button rule (I just don't like it).  And I think Jaxen was applying the dead button rule instead of the moving button rule.

In the original poster's scenario, here is what happens:

Hand A - The current SB busts out.

Hand B - The button moves to the player that was the BB (we'll call him 1).  1 also posts a SB.  Players 2 and 3 also post BBs for this hand (you will see why soon).

Hand C - The button moves to Player 2, who also posts a SB.  Player 3 posts a SB and Player 4 posts a BB

Hand D - The button moves to Player 3. Player 4 posts the SB and Player 5 posts the BB and we are back on the regular schedule where the button is not also posting a blind and/or there are more than two blinds on the table.

However, if during hands B, C, and D if another players busts out, the blinds get messed up again.

In both the moving and dead button rules, the goal is to ensure that players do not skip their blinds because another player is eliminated.

With the dead button rule, there can never be more than two blinds on the table and it is possible for there to be a BB only.

With the moving button rule, there can be multiple SBs and/or BBs for a given hand, and it is entirely possible for the button to also be a blind.

The dead button rule is much simpler and way more common.

[sharkyspoker]

Don't think of it as moving the button, but rather move the big blind accordingly. Then put the small blind and button in correct positions as they relate to where the new big blind is.

Example, if the big blind is currently at seat one and during this hand seat 2 is busted out, the big blind would move to the next occupied seat (seat 3) with the small blind on seat 1 and the button on seat 10.

If the big blind is on seat 1 and seat one busts out during the hand, the big blind would move left to the next occupied seat (seat 2) seat one would now be a dead small blind position and the button would be at seat 10.

If the big blind is on seat 1 and seat 10 busts out during the hand the big blind would move left to the next occupied seat (seat 2) the small blind would be seat 1 and the button would now be at the empty seat 10 (effectively giving seat 9 the button for consecutive hands)

I hope this helps and makes sense. Just keep it simple, move the big blind first then adjust the small blind and button as needed.

Good luck,
Sharky

[BigPair88]

So would I be correct in stating that, while playing, you would use the Moving Button Rule OR the Dead Button Rule...not both in the same game??

[Martini]

So would I be correct in stating that, while playing, you would use the Moving Button Rule OR the Dead Button Rule...not both in the same game??

Yes, one or the other.

[BigPair88]

Got it. Thanx everybody.

Thread over.... Next topic please 

[Nerre]

Don't think of it as moving the button, but rather move the big blind accordingly. Then put the small blind and button in correct positions as they relate to where the new big blind is.

That is the Dead button rule, right.

With the Moving button rule you do think of it as moving the button (makes sense, doesn't it?).

As Muley05 said the Moving button rule can get complicated because you will have to keep track of which blinds a player has posted or will have to post.

With the Dead button rule you only have to keep track of who was the last BB and who is the next BB. I think that is why it is used most frequently, in a tournament it would be to much to have the dealer responsible of keeping track of who has posted which blind.