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Author Topic: Long time no see!  (Read 668 times)
CfPoker
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« on: Mar 15, 2011 at 09:17 »

This one has caused a lot of discussion elsewhere. I'll keep my thoughts to myself. Exact copy of OP:

Player A raises to 8k at 1.5k/3.k

PLayer B makes it 15k more

Dealer advises player A its 10k more. He calls

Flop is dealt

Suddenly table realises Player A owes pot 5k

Floor is called. Ruling should be?
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Jambine
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« Reply #1 on: Mar 15, 2011 at 09:25 »

The flop came before action was complete.

1. Give player A the option to call the correct amount.
2. Bring the flop again.
3. Fire the dealer
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bigstu
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« Reply #2 on: Mar 15, 2011 at 11:44 »

he said call verbal is binding he has to call the original bet whether he likes the flop or not!

It is not a premature flop.
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bigstu
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« Reply #3 on: Mar 15, 2011 at 11:45 »

he said call verbal is binding he has to call the original bet whether he likes the flop or not!

It is not a premature flop.

Just read the OP again.... while technically my first answer is correct in the fairness to the game and since there is dealer error I would give player a the option again and redeal the flop!

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Muley05
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 15, 2011 at 12:24 »

Man, this is a really tough call.

I am leaning towards giving player B $5000 back.  A was told by the dealer it was $10,000 more and he called.  There is no way to tell if he would have still called had it been $15,000 more.

Sure, we can re-do the flop, but I hate giving the players the additional info of knowing three cards.

This seems to be a dealer error and not a player error.  It sort of screws over player B, but at least all  players have the same info now.

I could be completely off base in my thoughts as well.
« Last Edit: Mar 15, 2011 at 13:57 by Muley05 » Logged

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William
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 15, 2011 at 14:27 »

I think the correct ruling is to return the flop to the deck. Give Player A the option to reconsider the call. Shuffle the deck, and redeal the flop.

I don't think it's fair to allow Player A to play for the 10,000. Player B raised 15,000 for a reason.
And I don't think it's fair to give Player A the option to call the 15,000 now that he has seen the flop. He has far more information now.
And I also don't think it's fair to make Player A put up the extra 5,000. He based his decision on the count given by the dealer. Player A isn't to blame for putting in the wrong amount.
« Last Edit: Mar 15, 2011 at 14:35 by William » Logged

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Martini
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 15, 2011 at 15:35 »

Off the top of my head I would say that Player A owes another 5K to the pot. Yeah the dealer made a mistake, everyone does. In the end it is up to the player to protect his hand (and chips) by paying attention to what's going on. If there were a large misunderstanding then I would take that into consideration and may well rule otherwise. However, in this specific situation the player called 2/3 of the correct amount and the difference is less than two big blinds. I think it would be less disruptive to the hand overall to make Player A make put in a legal call and let the Flop stand.
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Wedge Rock
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 15, 2011 at 15:37 »

Aside from what the dealer announced, Player A has a responsibility to follow the action.  Furthermore, tho the OP doesn't discuss the time elapsed between each event, every player at the table had an obligation to correct the mistake.  It doesn't sound like the sequence of events allowed for anyone to intervene, however.

That said, I agree with Jambine/bigstu/William.

Shuffle the flop back into the deck, give Player A the option to call the correct amount, then bring the flop again.
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Wedge Rock (not a real rock)



Guilty of over-using ellipses...
pathand
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« Reply #8 on: Mar 19, 2011 at 18:28 »

Hey! No fussing about screwing up the holy sequence of the stub? I like it. Excellent!   
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Acenoid
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« Reply #9 on: Mar 29, 2011 at 17:15 »

Hi there!... Long absence so maybe iam Rusty (but was I ever an expert? Hell no --- ) Anyways here is my opinion -

If there was action with two persons after the error, action stands and cards play with 5k missing in the pot.

If not the amount should be correct to what the player has really called and the flop has to be redealt I think it was premature because the dealer made the mistake of making the player believe the wrong amount has to be put in.

PS I like also martini's opinion in where he states that the major part of the call was already contributed into the hand so making it up for the remaining 5k would also be a wise and non-disruptive choice!

cheers
« Last Edit: Mar 29, 2011 at 17:17 by Acenoid » Logged
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