new variation of poker

[hayjamawas]

dont know what to make of this...sounds interesting though

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/10843-johnny-chan-talks-about-new-position-poker-game

[holdemholmes]

Looks pretty interesting, but it sounds like you're going to need to play very LAG to have any kind of success.

[Milo]

I can see dealer's hating this . . .

[KPrather]

I can see dealer's hating this . . .

I dunno. Dealing-wise, it seems pretty similar to dealing a Kill pot, just doing the kill on every street.

[Junior]

don't see how it's going to be an advantage for aggressive players though.  Sure the 'winner' gets the right to act last but then that basically makes them the BB following a winning hand only they don't pay the money.  Getting dealt a sh%tty hand the next round and facing a raise and reraise doesnt' help that player just by getting last rights.  Sure it will help if you go on a run but at most is just a little spin on the game.  Interesting and could be nice to try out in a cash game which I just may do!

[holdemholmes]

don't see how it's going to be an advantage for aggressive players though.  Sure the 'winner' gets the right to act last but then that basically makes them the BB following a winning hand only they don't pay the money.  Getting dealt a sh%tty hand the next round and facing a raise and reraise doesnt' help that player just by getting last rights.  Sure it will help if you go on a run but at most is just a little spin on the game.  Interesting and could be nice to try out in a cash game which I just may do!

I'm not sure how you don't see that.....how would position ever be anything but an advantage to a good aggressive player? Being out of position vs. a decent aggressive player is a whole lot harder that being in position vs that player or even out of position vs. a passive player.

[luckystraights]

don't see how it's going to be an advantage for aggressive players though.  Sure the 'winner' gets the right to act last but then that basically makes them the BB following a winning hand only they don't pay the money.  Getting dealt a sh%tty hand the next round and facing a raise and reraise doesnt' help that player just by getting last rights.  Sure it will help if you go on a run but at most is just a little spin on the game.  Interesting and could be nice to try out in a cash game which I just may do!

I'm not sure how you don't see that.....how would position ever be anything but an advantage to a good aggressive player? Being out of position vs. a decent aggressive player is a whole lot harder that being in position vs that player or even out of position vs. a passive player.

your on a roll :-)

position in poker is so important, they made it a new version of poker, pretty funny

[figjam]

don't see how it's going to be an advantage for aggressive players though.  Sure the 'winner' gets the right to act last but then that basically makes them the BB following a winning hand only they don't pay the money.  Getting dealt a sh%tty hand the next round and facing a raise and reraise doesnt' help that player just by getting last rights.  Sure it will help if you go on a run but at most is just a little spin on the game.  Interesting and could be nice to try out in a cash game which I just may do!

seriously?

[Martini]

It would be interesting to see the difference that the winner button has on profitability. Unfortunately we will probably never know unless it shows up on an online poker site because we won't have enough good data to draw conclusions from.

Also, it seems like it would be a more useful format for cash games than tourneys though I can understand trying to roll it out in a tourney first.

[Junior]

don't see how it's going to be an advantage for aggressive players though.  Sure the 'winner' gets the right to act last but then that basically makes them the BB following a winning hand only they don't pay the money.  Getting dealt a sh%tty hand the next round and facing a raise and reraise doesnt' help that player just by getting last rights.  Sure it will help if you go on a run but at most is just a little spin on the game.  Interesting and could be nice to try out in a cash game which I just may do!

I'm not sure how you don't see that.....how would position ever be anything but an advantage to a good aggressive player? Being out of position vs. a decent aggressive player is a whole lot harder that being in position vs that player or even out of position vs. a passive player.

Sure over a long haul it will but for most of the time you're still just going to be playing from a 'regular' position anyways.  You obviously don't see what I mean.  You win a hand and get the 'winner' button giving you last action on the next hand.  Cards are dealt, UTG raises, late position reraises and then you acting last look down at 5, deuce off.  Where's your advantage gone now?  Sure, go ahead and call or reraise and then face a large bet on the flop.  It might work.  All I'm saying is it's just late position, doesn't mean you're gonna run the table all night with it.  Once that winner button is gone you have to win it back again.  I play my cards from any position and quite frankly don't need to act last to win more hands.

[luckystraights]

don't see how it's going to be an advantage for aggressive players though.  Sure the 'winner' gets the right to act last but then that basically makes them the BB following a winning hand only they don't pay the money.  Getting dealt a sh%tty hand the next round and facing a raise and reraise doesnt' help that player just by getting last rights.  Sure it will help if you go on a run but at most is just a little spin on the game.  Interesting and could be nice to try out in a cash game which I just may do!

I'm not sure how you don't see that.....how would position ever be anything but an advantage to a good aggressive player? Being out of position vs. a decent aggressive player is a whole lot harder that being in position vs that player or even out of position vs. a passive player.

Sure over a long haul it will but for most of the time you're still just going to be playing from a 'regular' position anyways.  You obviously don't see what I mean.  You win a hand and get the 'winner' button giving you last action on the next hand.  Cards are dealt, UTG raises, late position reraises and then you acting last look down at 5, deuce off.  Where's your advantage gone now?  Sure, go ahead and call or reraise and then face a large bet on the flop.  It might work.  All I'm saying is it's just late position, doesn't mean you're gonna run the table all night with it.  Once that winner button is gone you have to win it back again.  I play my cards from any position and quite frankly don't need to act last to win more hands.

I don't mean to be rude here, but you see things this way because you haven't "learned" how important it is and how it impacts you and the game as a whole. Position is in poker is a concept that is very easy to "huh huh I get it", but very hard to actually full comprehend and conceptulize.

[holdemholmes]

I don't mean to be rude here, but you see things this way because you haven't "learned" how important it is and how it impacts you and the game as a whole. Position is in poker is a concept that is very easy to "huh huh I get it", but very hard to actually full comprehend and conceptulize.

You beat me to it lucky...

[Junior]

ok coach, again thanks for the lesson.  I don't know where my game would be without you two to guide me.

[figjam]

ok coach, again thanks for the lesson.  I don't know where my game would be without you two to guide me.

Serious question here.  Do you play the exact same way if you are UTG vs if you are the button?  The same hands, the same aggressiveness, etc.

[holdemholmes]

ok coach, again thanks for the lesson.  I don't know where my game would be without you two to guide me.

No problem...bill is in the mail.

[luckystraights]

ok coach, again thanks for the lesson.  I don't know where my game would be without you two to guide me.

Just trying to help, if you despute what I'm saying I could probably find many people who have won way more then me to back me up on that, position is vitally important and is at least important as to the cards you hold in most circumstances.

I don't know your poker background or education, and you probably don't know mine, so its pretty arrogant for you to take that sort of attitude to what was a simple and easily backed up / refferenced piece of advise imo.

Take a look at :

Dueces cracked, or other coaching sites, most have free trials, or puruse two plus two, specifically the COTW's and sticky's, I believe there is one on position, tho I can't recall its quality.

[Junior]

ok coach, again thanks for the lesson.  I don't know where my game would be without you two to guide me.

Serious question here.  Do you play the exact same way if you are UTG vs if you are the button?  The same hands, the same aggressiveness, etc.

Um, yes, it's called changing your game up.  I'll play aggressive from any position and quite frankly don't care where the button is.  Do you always play cautious and tight from early, medium and moderate from the middle and only aggressive from late?  I switch it up constantly, change gears and I only see players I'm playing against, not where I'm playing them from.  Sorry, I just don't honestly think I need position all the time to command a table and win.

[luckystraights]

ok coach, again thanks for the lesson.  I don't know where my game would be without you two to guide me.

Serious question here.  Do you play the exact same way if you are UTG vs if you are the button?  The same hands, the same aggressiveness, etc.

Um, yes, it's called changing your game up.  I'll play aggressive from any position and quite frankly don't care where the button is.  Do you always play cautious and tight from early, medium and moderate from the middle and only aggressive from late?  I switch it up constantly, change gears and I only see players I'm playing against, not where I'm playing them from.  Sorry, I just don't honestly think I need position all the time to command a table and win.

I would guess this is because you don't play against "tough" opponents, or perhaps even aggressive or maybe even fundamentally solid opponents.

Try playing how you like OOP vs a solid aggressive opponent, once you've done this awhile you start to realize the difficulty of being OOP and the benfit position gives you.

[Junior]

well we don't all get to sit with the big boys i guess like the group you play with.  I must be sitting with all the young rookies who don't have a clue what they're doing!

[luckystraights]

well we don't all get to sit with the big boys i guess like the group you play with.  I must be sitting with all the young rookies who don't have a clue what they're doing!

forum strikes again

[William]

Let's sketch out a few situations.

Your hand is and you're open raising 4x the BB and get called by one player.

Flop comes .

Would you play the hand exactly the same in the following three situations?

1. You're first to act.
2. The other player checks and you act behind.
3. The other player bets the pot and you act behind.

If your answer is yes, then position doesn't matter to you.
If your answer is no, then position apparently does matter.