Jokers at Showdown

[Brisser25]

Long time lurker, first time post.

We have a group that plays 4-5 times per year.  Over the last year, we've averaged 30+ runners (previously, we had only run 3 tables once).  I've enjoyed the larger tournout, but there is a lot of work to manage a 4-table tourney I've discovered.  So here is what happened:

First hand (at my table) is dealt.  The first player to act was already drunk (his wife bought him a breathalyzer for his key chain) and was being loud and obnoxious and says:  "Do jokers play?".  He's played with us 10+ times over the years, so I thought he was being a smart a$$ because I had just finished going over the house rules (which he doesn't like).  So I reply, "of course"...he limps in and nothing else is said.   A new guy to our group, who had never played a live tournament also limps.  There are 4 total to the flop.  The UTG player bets and gets 2 callers on the flop.  On the turn, he bets only the new guy calls.  River bet / call again.  Both players show their cards and each has a joker. 

Per RR both hands should be declared dead, or should they because he "did" inform me?  What about the pot?

A few notes - I am considering banning this player for coming drunk...he had stopped coming that way the last 2 times.  Also, the person that "verified" the deck for me put it back inside the case and when it was retrieved, the jokers were back in the deck.

[Martini]

Dead hand. Return all bets and start over.

I'd also have every other table inspect decks for Jokers after the current hand is over if one didn't already show up. Ideally the deck is inspected before the tourney (http://www.howtoshuffle.com/how-to-spread-a-deck-of-cards.htm).

[DrTooth]

I agree w/ MArtini. Since it was the first hand, it makes it easy to return bets. Smack drunk guy upside the head and deal.

[Brisser25]

Thanks for the replies. 

I did declare the hand dead and return all bets and have the other tables check for jokers (none).  I failed to slap the drunk guy, but will do so next time I see him.

[William]

Not to be an ass, but you did say that jokers play. Two players believed they had a valid hand because of it and the hand has played out.

If either player objects they have  a valid point that the pot should be awarded to the winning hand.

And of course the deck should've been checked beforehand. If anyone needs bo slapped upside the head it should be the person making the errors, not the players acting on false information.

[Martini]

The hand was dead before he asked. Technically you could say that the last person to fold other than the player's with Jokers would win the hand but under the circumstances I would return bets as the more equitable solution to the problem. Though the (presumed) TD said that Joker's play it was intended as a smart alec response to what he perceived to be a joke question. I would throw conversation like that under the "I have suited Aces" kind of talk and not as any official ruling. Or to look at it another way, what would happen if the TD had a Joker in his hand and announced "Jokers play." Would he be able to use his Joker?

It's a messy situation only because the TD said that Jokers play but I'd be comfortable ruling that bets are returned as the best solution even though Jokers do not create a misdeal. Also I'd rule the same regardless of it being the first hand or not.

[TJCOgators]

I want a breathalyzer key chain   

[FLUX_13]

So if you let the jokers play did you or they "assume" they were wild cards? 

[Brisser25]

They assumed they were wild.

William - Your thought process is what caused me to post because I, the TD, said "of course" and the players took this information to be fact, so was rethinking my decision to call the hand dead and return all money.

Learned several good lessons that won't get repeated.

[Nerre]

There is a reason the dealer should always spread a new deck both faces up and backs up on the table before the initial shuffle...

Of course this doesn't change how the situation should be handled, but it minimizes the probability that the situation occurs.