High Stakes Poker Season 7

[Magoddi]

Sounds like no FTP players are going to be involved this season. Still looking forward to the new season and still hoping Farha will make an appearance but is doesn't seem likely.

http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/high-stakes-poker-season-7-debuts-february-26th-on-gsn-17762/

[holdemholmes]

I say Farha will show up, and even without the FTP guys it will still be an awesome lineup.

[holdemholmes]

lineup of pros and amateurs that will be playing listed here...along with other info. slight spoiler....nothing major but I just dont want anyone to say they didn't want to know it yet. (link below)

(Click to show/hide)

http://news.bluffmagazine.com/norm-mcdonald-new-host-of-high-stakes-poker-no-full-tilt-pros-airing-in-3-d-18548/

[stooks99]

If the news about the commentator is true, I am really speechless.

[Martini]

Poker in 3D? Really?

[holdemholmes]

Poker in 3D? Really?

Cmon...you know you've been dreaming of it. 

[KPrather]

Well, now that the new season is underway, what do you think?

Norm's commentary has me underwhelmed.

[holdemholmes]

Well, now that the new season is underway, what do you think?

Norm's commentary has me underwhelmed.

I think it could be a lot worse...it could be Vince Van Patten over-exaggerating every single thing...

[luckystraights]

I can barley bring myself to watch it.

ealry-mid episodes of season 4 are best imo, they seems to be a lot less hands, and a lot weaker commentary, although the commentary as always been lol, at least gabe knew the players which made it better.

I think HSP needs to go pro on pro and get rid of the rich fish, or get durr back in the game, otherwise the show is just bad. I was looking forward to seeing Vennassa, but pretty disapointed by her play so far.

[William]

Best commentary I heard sofar was on Pokerstar's The Big Game. Especially Chris Rose's commentary is very insightful.

[holdemholmes]

I was looking forward to seeing Vennassa, but pretty disapointed by her play so far.

That was my first impression...If this is your first experience watching her it's easy to wonder how she won $3M last year in tourneys...

[stooks99]

Best commentary I heard sofar was on Pokerstar's The Big Game. Especially Chris Rose's commentary is very insightful.

I really, really, really hope you are getting Rose and Stapes confused.  Either way, all the "insight" comes from Jimmy Fricke, as he's the man behind the scenes on strategy commentary for that show. 

[NotFadeAway]

Best commentary I heard sofar was on Pokerstar's The Big Game. Especially Chris Rose's commentary is very insightful.

I really, really, really hope you are getting Rose and Stapes confused.  Either way, all the "insight" comes from Jimmy Fricke, as he's the man behind the scenes on strategy commentary for that show. 

I love how they credit him as 'poker police.'  I don't know why that is, but it's cool.

[stooks99]

Best commentary I heard sofar was on Pokerstar's The Big Game. Especially Chris Rose's commentary is very insightful.

I really, really, really hope you are getting Rose and Stapes confused.  Either way, all the "insight" comes from Jimmy Fricke, as he's the man behind the scenes on strategy commentary for that show. 

I love how they credit him as 'poker police.'  I don't know why that is, but it's cool.

Yeah it's awesome to hear that knowing it's roots.  I love that Stapes and Leatherman are getting some time on TV.  It feels like a garage band that no one knew about and now suddenly they are big.

[William]

Best commentary I heard sofar was on Pokerstar's The Big Game. Especially Chris Rose's commentary is very insightful.

I really, really, really hope you are getting Rose and Stapes confused.  Either way, all the "insight" comes from Jimmy Fricke, as he's the man behind the scenes on strategy commentary for that show. 

Erm... yeah... I meant Joe Stapleton...

[luckystraights]

The poker viewer in me wants a show of just pro's and only pro's in the booth... I might have change that to seasoned high stakes, or even online high stakes pro's, that would be truly awesome to watch.

The rest of me however realizes that I'll soon regret that.

[stooks99]

The poker viewer in me wants a show of just pro's and only pro's in the booth... I might have change that to seasoned high stakes, or even online high stakes pro's, that would be truly awesome to watch.

The rest of me however realizes that I'll soon regret that.

I know what you mean about the pros vs pros, but I also agree that you'd grow tired of it.  Season 5 and 6 just flat out bored me.  I know they scattered in Melter and Baxter, but it just seemed kinda dull.   

I'm with you when you say Season 4 was the peak.  It may have been the players or the production, but Seasons 3 and 4 were by far my favorite.  They have got to get Sammy Farha back.  I know everyone loves that Dwan is a maniac or whatever, but his personality (in my opinion), really drowns out his play on TV.   The Farha/Elezra and Farha/Hellmuth dynamic is amazing on television. 

I've always been someone that said the poker class of 2004 has got to move over for the new young guys, but if they are going to be as boring to watch as they have been so far, then I don't blame NBC and GSN for trying to keep the older guys around.

[holdemholmes]

They have Viffer, I think all they need to make it a whole lot more interesting is Eli Elezra. There was a PAD episode that had 4 others that didn't really give much action but those 2 made the show worth it.

[stooks99]

They have Viffer, I think all they need to make it a whole lot more interesting is Eli Elezra. There was a PAD episode that had 4 others that didn't really give much action but those 2 made the show worth it.

Agreed.  I don't know who the person that decided FTP pros and PS pros suddenly can't mix, but they'd better get their head out of their ass. 

[luckystraights]

The poker viewer in me wants a show of just pro's and only pro's in the booth... I might have change that to seasoned high stakes, or even online high stakes pro's, that would be truly awesome to watch.

The rest of me however realizes that I'll soon regret that.

I know what you mean about the pros vs pros, but I also agree that you'd grow tired of it.  Season 5 and 6 just flat out bored me.  I know they scattered in Melter and Baxter, but it just seemed kinda dull.   

I'm with you when you say Season 4 was the peak.  It may have been the players or the production, but Seasons 3 and 4 were by far my favorite.  They have got to get Sammy Farha back.  I know everyone loves that Dwan is a maniac or whatever, but his personality (in my opinion), really drowns out his play on TV.   The Farha/Elezra and Farha/Hellmuth dynamic is amazing on television. 

I've always been someone that said the poker class of 2004 has got to move over for the new young guys, but if they are going to be as boring to watch as they have been so far, then I don't blame NBC and GSN for trying to keep the older guys around.

I didn't mean that I'd get tired of watching them, tho that might be true too. I meant that as much as it'd be great to see some high stakes pro action, I also don't want it televised, thats probably short sighted and wrong of me, but it was how I felt when I posted my previous post.

I've never thought of it before, but I think your right, the show needs Farah and Elezra is great too, its not just there play, its the atmoshper and table talk, the whole package is just great to watch, throw in some helmuth and farah fireworks and its popcorn time.

[luckystraights]

They have Viffer, I think all they need to make it a whole lot more interesting is Eli Elezra. There was a PAD episode that had 4 others that didn't really give much action but those 2 made the show worth it.

he's probably the only one holding the show up atm, I'd hate to be on a table with him, his bluff vs the fish was kinda lol, but keeps things interesting.

[Buzzerbeater]

I was a big fan of Season 2 at the Palms.  Besides the crazy hands that poor Daniel got stuck in, I thought it was a good mix of styles and personalities.

[William]

I just watched the first two episodes of Season 7.

My god it's dreary. The jokes are lame ("Doyle sucked out on cancer. I wasn't there, but I think it was runner-runner." Really??!!), the commentary useless ("He's either bluffing or got a made hand." Yeah, really insightful there.), and the intonation comatose.

There's hardly any banter. You get the occasional "Doyle Brunson ladies and gentlemen" or "Barry Greenstein ladies and gentlemen" from Esfandiari, and that's it.

And the action is like watching an online newbie playmoney game with huge overbets like a $20,000 raise into a $5,000 pot. So it's either fold-fold-fold, or all-in. The amateurs are killing the action this season.

[luckystraights]

And the action is like watching an online newbie playmoney game with huge overbets like a $20,000 raise into a $5,000 pot. So it's either fold-fold-fold, or all-in. The amateurs are killing the action this season.

I agree, but I think thats also due to the mix of regs. The other regs, especially Doyle and Greenstein arn't going to get to fancy with 3 fish on the table, especially with the size of one of those fish, which leaves viff alone to do is thing, which adds some spice, but not enough to componsate for the rest of the table being on the whole snooze inducing.

I'd swap out Doyle with a more active pro. Things might change with the swap out in ep 3 or 4 tho (not Doyle).

[TwoToGo-Grave]

And the action is like watching an online newbie playmoney game with huge overbets like a $20,000 raise into a $5,000 pot. So it's either fold-fold-fold, or all-in. The amateurs are killing the action this season.

I agree, but I think thats also due to the mix of regs. The other regs, especially Doyle and Greenstein arn't going to get to fancy with 3 fish on the table, especially with the size of one of those fish, which leaves viff alone to do is thing, which adds some spice, but not enough to componsate for the rest of the table being on the whole snooze inducing.

I'd swap out Doyle with a more active pro. Things might change with the swap out in ep 3 or 4 tho (not Doyle).

Hmm...Brunson or a random LAG player?  Almost everybody would rather see Brunson, and for good reason.  Other than Hellmuth, there's nobody who's going to increase viewers like Doyle.

[Buzzerbeater]

I think nowadays Daniel, Matusow or Laak could get more viewers than Doyle.

[holdemholmes]

I think nowadays Daniel, Matusow or Laak could get more viewers than Doyle.

I personally don't mind Doyle, but they do need one of these 3 to get the action going a bit. I think Daniel's personality and table talk is great for the game....regardless of whether you think he is a good player or not.

[luckystraights]

And the action is like watching an online newbie playmoney game with huge overbets like a $20,000 raise into a $5,000 pot. So it's either fold-fold-fold, or all-in. The amateurs are killing the action this season.

I agree, but I think thats also due to the mix of regs. The other regs, especially Doyle and Greenstein arn't going to get to fancy with 3 fish on the table, especially with the size of one of those fish, which leaves viff alone to do is thing, which adds some spice, but not enough to componsate for the rest of the table being on the whole snooze inducing.

I'd swap out Doyle with a more active pro. Things might change with the swap out in ep 3 or 4 tho (not Doyle).

Hmm...Brunson or a random LAG player?  Almost everybody would rather see Brunson, and for good reason.  Other than Hellmuth, there's nobody who's going to increase viewers like Doyle.

Whats the good reason?

[Detroitdad]

I've watched every episode so far. Honestly, I'm bored. The table banter sucks ass.

[holdemholmes]

I also have a lack of patience for the amateur that is way up in chips...forget his name. I don't understand how you can put someone on a tv poker show that cannot understand when and why it's his BB or SB and cannot pay enough attention to the action to know when it's his turn.

[luckystraights]

I also have a lack of patience for the amateur that is way up in chips...forget his name. I don't understand how you can put someone on a tv poker show that cannot understand when and why it's his BB or SB and cannot pay enough attention to the action to know when it's his turn.

if your going to have rich unknowns on, they should be the caliber of Bob Safai from what I've seen, not pro's by anymeans, but have experience and will put the pro's to a test rather then simply c/c c/c oooh I hit my hand 5x pot please.

I agree its boring now, I watch in hope it'll get better.

[TwoToGo-Grave]

And the action is like watching an online newbie playmoney game with huge overbets like a $20,000 raise into a $5,000 pot. So it's either fold-fold-fold, or all-in. The amateurs are killing the action this season.

I agree, but I think thats also due to the mix of regs. The other regs, especially Doyle and Greenstein arn't going to get to fancy with 3 fish on the table, especially with the size of one of those fish, which leaves viff alone to do is thing, which adds some spice, but not enough to componsate for the rest of the table being on the whole snooze inducing.

I'd swap out Doyle with a more active pro. Things might change with the swap out in ep 3 or 4 tho (not Doyle).

Hmm...Brunson or a random LAG player?  Almost everybody would rather see Brunson, and for good reason.  Other than Hellmuth, there's nobody who's going to increase viewers like Doyle.

Whats the good reason?

I would think because Doyle gives people more of a rooting interest because everybody likes him, as well as because a random online pro inspires nothing.  Maybe they make an impression, but they're random and are very replaceable and interchangeable.  Don't get me wrong-I like seeing such players, but I doubt that most viewers care one bit about them.

Also, I think that familiarity and players that people like (or like to hate) is key to getting interest from most viewers.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression that I get, and likely why the 2004 class of players are still on tv so much in place of today's best players.

[stooks99]

All of the things we are saying make perfect sense, but it comes down to one big thing: personality.  Sounds weird, because as poker nerds we want it to be all about the sick plays and such.  But, think about all the really good episodes from Seasons 1-4.  It all came down to the dynamic created at the table.  The back and forths between Farha/Elezra, Farha/Hellmuth, Negreanu/almost anyone, Laak/Esfandiari, etc.  You just don't have that now.  I know people want to see Ivey, Durr and Antonius on every episode, but from a TV viewer standpoint, they are just flat out boring to watch. 

[luckystraights]

And the action is like watching an online newbie playmoney game with huge overbets like a $20,000 raise into a $5,000 pot. So it's either fold-fold-fold, or all-in. The amateurs are killing the action this season.

I agree, but I think thats also due to the mix of regs. The other regs, especially Doyle and Greenstein arn't going to get to fancy with 3 fish on the table, especially with the size of one of those fish, which leaves viff alone to do is thing, which adds some spice, but not enough to componsate for the rest of the table being on the whole snooze inducing.

I'd swap out Doyle with a more active pro. Things might change with the swap out in ep 3 or 4 tho (not Doyle).

Hmm...Brunson or a random LAG player?  Almost everybody would rather see Brunson, and for good reason.  Other than Hellmuth, there's nobody who's going to increase viewers like Doyle.

Whats the good reason?

I would think because Doyle gives people more of a rooting interest because everybody likes him, as well as because a random online pro inspires nothing.  Maybe they make an impression, but they're random and are very replaceable and interchangeable.  Don't get me wrong-I like seeing such players, but I doubt that most viewers care one bit about them.

Also, I think that familiarity and players that people like (or like to hate) is key to getting interest from most viewers.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression that I get, and likely why the 2004 class of players are still on tv so much in place of today's best players.

You might be right. I'm finding it hard to express my point of view on this, maybe I can only speak for myself, but I don't see Doyle to be all that "appealing" (not sure if thats an appropriate phrase). I think people who watch HSP and I could be very wrong with this assumption will fall into two keeps, people who are into poker in a semi-serious to serious capacity who watch for lol values, entertainment and the fact there is not much better aired, poker wise. The second camp will be the recreational crowed how maybe plays a home game, probably knows what the world series is and whats to watch related content on TV, maybe even as you say to seee a recreational face playing poke. Regarding Doyle tho, the only thing going for him on this show IMO is that he is very recognizeable, its hard to imagine a poiint in poker where people won't know who he is, but even that day is sure to come sooner or later.

In other areas, again IMO Doyle doesn't offer anywhere near as much interest as other players, he's (and I don't mean to offend Doyle or his fans) nowhere near the top echelons of nlhe players... again IMO, and he's nowhere near as interesting to watch as dare I say even Howard Lederrer, the table banter just isn't there.

Other pro's may not attact the same degrees of "heartfelt admiration", but most will be more interesting to watch, either through there antics and table talk (tony g, helmuth, etc) or by the sheer mastery of the game and their use of creative play (I've only witnessed Durr to any real degree on HSP exhibit such traints, as from what I recall PA and others havent' gotten too out of line, outside of battling HU with durr occassionaly).

With a show such as this I think they key needs to be in the mix. I really liked season 4, because helmuth played his best ever on the show and there was some great table talk between him and gold and him and farah... not to mention farah and gold... the rec players where interesting and active, bother in table talk and there game, and there was a really good atmosphere, subsequent shows have lacked that imo, and the show is really suffering for it.

With all the changes, I think that has been made I would guess the producers or w/e is in charge is trying to recreate that atmosphere, I'm not sure how they'll do that without using the same or similar mix of players, but I do think the mix of players is that the root of the problem, if you could call it one.

I'd also be suprised that if a voting system where introduced to select future pro's for the show, the majority wouldn't be online (or came from online) pro's, there is a lot of players out there who crush from ssnl to nosebleeds who have never or rarley been on TV and at least from a "poker play" sense will have the capacity to make a great show.

[holdemholmes]

All of the things we are saying make perfect sense, but it comes down to one big thing: personality.  Sounds weird, because as poker nerds we want it to be all about the sick plays and such.  But, think about all the really good episodes from Seasons 1-4.  It all came down to the dynamic created at the table.  The back and forths between Farha/Elezra, Farha/Hellmuth, Negreanu/almost anyone, Laak/Esfandiari, etc.  You just don't have that now.  I know people want to see Ivey, Durr and Antonius on every episode, but from a TV viewer standpoint, they are just flat out boring to watch. 

I did really like the earlier seasons for the reasons you listed as well...but I do enjoy Durr, Ivey and Antonius at the table. What they lack in conversation they make up for in huge pots. This season is definitely missing something though.