How to play shorthanded (4 - 6 ppl) STTs?

[sleepyEDB]

Hello,

I've been co-hosting a weekly NLHE league for the past few months and our attendance is regularly between 4 - 6 people, with the occasional week of 8 - 10 players.  We play two tournaments a night which are essentially Sit N Gos since we haven't yet needed to use two tables. 

I'm familiar with the basic gameplan when there are 8 - 10 players (tight in the beginning, then loosen up my hand selection as players get knocked out, my M falls, the bubble approaches, etc.) but how does one approach a STT where there are only 4 players to begin with?  Should I treat it like a full table and remain tight until my M forces me to make moves, or should I immediately widen my hand selection & get more aggressive since there are only 4 players?  I guess it's the combination of only 4 players and the small blinds in the beginning that throws me off since they seem to be calling for conflicting strategies.


In case it helps, our structure is as follows:

Starting Stack:  T500
Breakdown:  10 T5s, 10 T25s, 2 T100s
Levels:  10 minutes
Blinds: 
5 /10
10/20
15/30
20/40
25/50
30/60
40/80
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400
I don't think we've ever needed to go higher than 200/400 

(I realize the structure needs work, but that's what they've done in the past & it seems to help in fitting two tournaments into a 4 hour evening, so I haven't suggested anything different yet...that's coming in another thread.)


thanks,


sleepy

[holdemholmes]

There's a couple big differences about playing shorthanded vs. full table. First off, you need to widen your starting hand selection. In a 4 handed game, 1 pair is going to win a whole lot more often than in a full 9 or 10 player game. If im playing 4 handed, im raising if im playing the pot, and i will raise baically any ace, any pocket pair, kq, kj, k10....etc. The other thing you want to do is be more aggressive....as i said you're not going to hit a monster hand that often, so you need to take down more pots with weaker hands.

Just like in a full table, there's really no need to play super super loose in the beginning and go crazy right from the start, but you will need to be more aggressive.

[sleepyEDB]

Thanks for the reply!

Just like in a full table, there's really no need to play super super loose in the beginning and go crazy right from the start, but you will need to be more aggressive.

Any advice on when to start loosening up and getting more aggressive?  I know it all depends on who's at the table with me, how they're playing, etc. but I guess that's what I've really been struggling with...things like whether or not to call raises / re-raise with hands like K J, Q T when there's only 4 people, but the blinds are still 5 / 10 or 10 / 20.  If I were at a 10 handed table w/ low blinds I'd almost always fold those hands.  If I were at a 4 handed table that started out as a 10 handed table and the blinds were higher / my M was getting low I'd re-raise or shove.

But what would you do when something like that happens within the first two blind levels with only 4 people at the table?


sleepy

[holdemholmes]

But what would you do when something like that happens within the first two blind levels with only 4 people at the table?


sleepy

When you're short, you're short...nothing really you can do about that. Obviously when you're short stacked you can't sit around and wait for hands so your hand range to shove opens up....and it should be even wider when you're shorthanded. As for specific hands, like you said it depends on your opponents, but you can't be afraid to push shorthanded and shortstacked. You have a much smaller chance of being called by a better hand. It also depends on how short you're talking....if i have 10 BB and its 4 people at the table....im probably going to shove kj or better....maybe k10....most likely any ace...unless maybe someone raised in front of me and im really really confident they have me beat.

[sleepyEDB]

Again, excellent advice...thanks!

I think I might be making this a bit unclear though, sorry.  My main concern is how to play the first few levels of the tournament when blinds are small and stacks are large, but there's only 4 or 5 people at the table. 

Should I treat it like it's a 10 person SNG and play tight / small opening hand range?

Or should I start out playing a wider hand range / more aggro from the beginning?  (Similar to how you'd play in a 10 person tourney after 6 people have been knocked out and blinds are higher, Ms are lower, etc.)

Thanks again,


sleepy

[holdemholmes]

Should I treat it like it's a 10 person SNG and play tight / small opening hand range?

I woulnd't get crazy right from the start, but you really have to play more hands than you would at the start of a 10 person table, since the hand values are so much greater in 4 handed game than 10 handed. I would open up the hand range a little, and play more aggressive, but dont play it like a 10 man thats down to 4 people. In that scenario, there's diffferences in stack sizes greater than starting with 4 people, and you're further into the game. A pair is still going to win the pot a lot more 4 handed than it will 10 handed, so you should play accordingly. With that being said, 4handed or 10 handed in the start of a sit and go, there's no need to get crazy and lose 50 bb overplaying k10 :-)

[sleepyEDB]

Excellent advice, thanks.

And thanks for your patience as I struggled to get my meaning across clearly!   


sleepy

[holdemholmes]

Excellent advice, thanks.

And thanks for your patience as I struggled to get my meaning across clearly!   


sleepy

Not a problem at all....and hey whats the worst thing to happen, you got a little extra advice! When we started playing i was in the same spot as you basically...our game had 6 90% of the time...we had a lot of trouble getting a full table, so i basically grew up on shorthanded...played 6-7 man sngs most of the time 5 days a week for 3 years or so..so its what im used to and what i like.

[stooks99]

I have played over 1200 6 handed sngs on pokerstars.  I have found them to be relatively soft, mostly because people want to play and they want to play in a hurry.  You have to dodge a few regulars, but no big whoop.  Anywho...

Short handed sngs are built around a couple of basic principles, with the biggest one being showdown.  You need to play more hands that will win at showdown and fewer hands that are better of played mulitway for cheap.  Almost every pot is going to be raised 6 handed, so you need hands that have enough value to deal with it.

So, what hands showdown winners the most often?  Ace highs, good Kings, and pairs.  I'm not saying that you should never play 9Ts or QJ offsuit, but if you're coming into the pot, you want to come in for a raise, so you want to make sure your hand is worth the money you're putting into the pot.

I don't mind playing any ace in these games, but very often I will muck the baby Aces utg (A2-A7) but play any ace from the other positions.  Any pair I will raise from any position if it is folded to me.  Baby pairs can't stand a lot of heat, but if the table is raising in the 3-4x range, even 22 is worth a flop early in the game.

After the flop, most hands are going to be pretty basic.  If I have raised before the flop, I am going to c-bet the flop about 80% of the time, as opposed to the 60% or so you probably would in a full ring.   It's hard to makehands in NLHE, and it's even harder for someone to have something shorthanded. 

2nd and 3rd pair both go up in value, but I wouldnt be willing to go broke with either.

[holdemholmes]

Stooks also makes a good point that i think i left out and that is to still remain tight utg, and be willing to muck that baby ace. Also, i will re-emphasize the point stooks made about the fact that its hard to make a hand, so remain aggressive, and definitely c-bet most of the time. Basically, BE AGGRESSIVE.

[sleepyEDB]

Excellent points stooks99, thanks for the reply!

And holdemholmes, thank you yet again.


sleepy

[NotFadeAway]

People have already given really good advice, but I'll add something here anyway...
If you're deep enough you can attack a lot early, trying to set up a big pot while the blinds are small.  However, for the most part the tourney doesn't really begin until the blinds are bigger.  At that point you're going to have to have a good idea of push/fold and calling ranges for yourself and for your opponents.  If you're opponents are weak, afraid to push wide, etc. you have to recognize this and take advantage.  If they push wide, resteal wide, play like stations, etc. you need to recognize that and adjust.
My main point here is that there's really no way anyone can give you perfect advice without knowing how your opponents play.  Just pay attention, adjust, and profit.   

[luckystraights]

I got really excited, until I saw STT's... I'll leave it to you guy's

[troysteelerfan]

I just skimmed the other posts so I may have missed this if someone else already said it....but another thing to keep in mind.....as you get lower in chips and the table is 6 handed or less....you need to "rethink" your stack size to starting pot ratio (M as Harrington calls it)....since you are at a shorter handed table and the blinds come around faster an M of 10-12 isn't really an M of 10-12 at a full table...so I would adjust play accordingly for that.

[holdemholmes]

I just skimmed the other posts so I may have missed this if someone else already said it....but another thing to keep in mind.....as you get lower in chips and the table is 6 handed or less....you need to "rethink" your stack size to starting pot ratio (M as Harrington calls it)....since you are at a shorter handed table and the blinds come around faster an M of 10-12 isn't really an M of 10-12 at a full table...so I would adjust play accordingly for that.

Another excellent point, and one that is often not understood to players new to shorthanded.

[sleepyEDB]

Thanks, troysteelersfan...a great point, and one that I definitely hadn't considered.

Speaking of M, very few people in my circle of home game players understand and/or abide by it; which makes for some interesting, albeit rather challenging at times, play.  Many will wait until their last two chips before getting a hand they feel is good enough to shove.  I am almost always one of the first to start going all-in when my M demands it, and most of them are surprised that I have so many chips left when I do, and that I my hand is often so much weaker than what they would've shoved with. 


sleepy

[holdemholmes]

Thanks, troysteelersfan...a great point, and one that I definitely hadn't considered.

Speaking of M, very few people in my circle of home game players understand and/or abide by it; which makes for some interesting, albeit rather challenging at times, play.  Many will wait until their last two chips before getting a hand they feel is good enough to shove.  I am almost always one of the first to start going all-in when my M demands it, and most of them are surprised that I have so many chips left when I do, and that I my hand is often so much weaker than what they would've shoved with. 


sleepy

definitely the way to play....i play in a game that is the same way...but with 10-15 big blinds left you CANNOT wait around for aces shorthanded....

[troysteelerfan]

Being the first to act - and going all in is almost - if not as important - as your cards.  Watching people show down hands in this situation should give you an idea of who understands how to play shorthanded in late tourney situations....I to play in a game where players will get to short on chips....they will have an M around 3-5 and will still limp fold....but whatever....makes it easier to play against them.

[holdemholmes]

Being the first to act - and going all in is almost - if not as important - as your cards.  Watching people show down hands in this situation should give you an idea of who understands how to play shorthanded in late tourney situations....I to play in a game where players will get to short on chips....they will have an M around 3-5 and will still limp fold....but whatever....makes it easier to play against them.

I've seen that all too often as well...but like you said...better for you when you're playing against them.

[FSL009]

4 - 6 handed is also alot about understanding your opponents and what you think they see and what they dont see.

if they are reasonable players and understand and see you raising lots of pots with junk then you need to balance.  junk them some of the time and shock them with better hands when you can.

if they are stupid and dont notice then steal when not in the blinds and protect your blinds alot.

cards actually dont mean alot 4 handed unless you have people willing to go to showdowns too often or with nothing.

Position, Position, position.  6 handed is a little less of the above.  in that EP is more of an issue with 3 people behind to act.

if your better post flop 4 handed i am wanting to see alot of flops as you can elevate pots late in a hand if need be and depending on what they are calling with your less likely to be believed where you have balance in your range, ie playing and showing down a little bit of junk every now and again.

mostly concentrate on what your opposition are.  TAG, LAG, CS, etc and play to their weakness.  if too tight play looser and aggressive, if too loose then min raises and min raise calls pre to get into post flop play.  no matter what most people dont hit the flop in these games (they do more 6 handed so watch it as 4h and 6h is different).

Oh and slow down on the turn alot firing three bullets everynow and again is fine but you dont want to throw good money after bad if you know they are rarely calling without a decent hand or a decent draw.

mmmmm i think that is it.....from me.  the guys suggestions above are all good as well.

push your draws alot more as well, as they dont hit alot of flops if your 1 to the flush or open ender witha  made hand then your shoving alot more or elevating the pot more in those circumstances 4 handed.

 

[sleepyEDB]

Excellent post, FSL009, thank you!


sleepy