Ace rag on the short stack

[Gregg729]

4 players left.  Blinds just barely rose from 500/1000 to 1K/2K.  Hero is BB.

SB - lots and lots of chips, guessing around 60k
BB - you have 15.5k , including the BB you posted (13.5k left)
UTG - also small stack, probably around 20k?
UTG+1 - probably around 35-40k

UTG folds.  UTG+1 raises to 10k. 

UTG is a very solid, tight-aggressive.  He'll go for long periods without playing a hand, waiting to pick up a primo hand.  You've noticed his last 4 preflop overbets in a row going back 2 games (haven't spent too much time at the same table in those 2 games) have been 5XBB on KQ or KJ.  You aren't sure if that's his MO if he holds an ace with a similar kicker or not, or if he's just trying to take down the pot without a fight with his king high hands.  You read him as not having a pocket pair, but....

SB folds.  You look down at A4.  Fold it or look to double up right here?

[dugthefish]

4 players left.  Blinds just barely rose from 500/1000 to 1K/2K.  Hero is BB.
UTG folds.  UTG+1 raises to 10k. 

UTG is a very solid, tight-aggressive.

can i assume u mean that about UTG+1, the raiser?

i would say shove.  you are down to less than 6 BB, you have seen him raise with less than premium hands, any ace would be good enough in my book.  when you get that short, you're gonna need some luck anyhow.  i would prefer luck and an ace.

[NotFadeAway]

I would be strongly tempted to fold and look for a spot to open shove.  It's a really tough spot though, and could go either way.  I would probably prefer folding and waiting to try and open shove, though.

[dugthefish]

actually, i might try a call and shove no matter what comes on the flop.  it would be a long shot, but if he completly whiffs, and he's a tight player, he might get away from it, even though he would still be getting 4:1. 

i think, on the button 4 handed with chipstacks where they are, there is a very good chance he's stealing with any two cards.  he knows the big stack won't call without premium cards, since who wants to go big stack vs. big stack when there's two shorties that need busting.  i say at least 25% he has garbage (just a guess, not mathematics involved).

[FSL009]

he is never not calling the extra 3.5K post flop so dont call you may as well get it all in i your calling cause there is nothing that is going to get him to drop the hand after he puts 10K in againts your 13.5k

he is probably in lightish but probably not much lighter that a naked A like yours  (I assume it was A4os not suited but the decision is much the same).   but I think you can not call with such a weak hand and you are still over m of 5 so you can get through your SB and open shove UTG+1 or UTG with anything and have better fold equity and maintain your spot at m of 6 before posting your BB again.

[DonkeyDonkDonkDonk]

It's a pretty simple fold. Only get it in with marginal hands if you have some fold equity in SS tourney situations.

I don't play tourneys that often, but that's just my opinion.

It is far better to shove K2 than to call off A4

[Wedge Rock]

With no raise in front of me, I'd raise with A-napkin.

With a raise in front of me, I fold this and look for a better spot. 

I don't even consider their table image much in making my decision.  I don't have enough to scare away UTG+1, even if he was bluffing.  I don't like my odds, even against a random hand.

[Gregg729]

It's a pretty simple fold.

Thanks guys.  Except for this sentence above, no offense, I think everything posted above is good food for thought.

I ruled out pairs or a bluff so then it was just a question if he had a king or a better ace, and it was truly a 50/50 guess for me.  I was a clear favorite or clearly dominated.

I opted to take a chance that the guy was so mechanical as to bet differently with a good ace than I'd seen him bet with a strong king, and truth be told I probably talked myself into it a little bit on the grounds that I was likely to eat two M's before I saw another ace.

Turns out he had the better ace and I was done for the night.  I don't ever regret going for it on what I feel is a truly 50/50 decision when my back's against the wall.

But.  Had I taken my read one step further - my read of his possible ace range (k-10 kicker) was about twice as wide as his possible king range (q, j, maybe 10 kicker) - and with an ace being about 2/3 of the range I put him on, that tells me I should have ate the BB and nursed a smaller stack to a better spot to make a stand.

[NotFadeAway]

It's a pretty simple fold.

Thanks guys.  Except for this sentence above, no offense, I think everything posted above is good food for thought

No offense, but this was good food for thought too.  After all, Donk wrote more than what you quoted:

It's a pretty simple fold. Only get it in with marginal hands if you have some fold equity in SS tourney situations.

I don't play tourneys that often, but that's just my opinion.

It is far better to shove K2 than to call off A4

So it's not as if he just gave one line and that's it.  He gave his opinion, his reasoning, his mindset on shortstack play, and even tempered his advice with a statement that he doesn't play tourneys often.  Overall, this was an excellent post, at least imo.

[luckystraights]

It's a pretty simple fold.

Thanks guys.  Except for this sentence above, no offense, I think everything posted above is good food for thought.

I ruled out pairs or a bluff so then it was just a question if he had a king or a better ace, and it was truly a 50/50 guess for me.  I was a clear favorite or clearly dominated.

Is this a live player thing? by the flick of the hairs on your wrist I know you don't have 22-AA, and by the way your nose twitched, u also don't have AJ+, so I'm only worried about A5-AT, and I'm ahead of your so obvious K high's... but hmmm

If you know his range, and your equity already...

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    47.660%     37.03%    10.63%        1407733740    403960410.00   { A4o }
Hand 1:    52.340%     41.71%    10.63%        1585660320    403960410.00   { ATs-A2s, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo-A2o, KTo+, QTo+ }

Hand 0:    41.291%     34.13%    07.16%        2054722548    431185656.00   { A4o }
Hand 1:    58.709%     51.55%    07.16%        3103367004    431185656.00   { 22+, A2s+, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+ }

Hand 0:    38.583%     34.60%    03.98%        1428976644    164543472.00   { A4o }
Hand 1:    61.417%     57.43%    03.98%        2372013660    164543472.00   { 77+, A6s+, KJs+, QJs, A6o+, KTo+, QJo }

[NotFadeAway]

It's a pretty simple fold.

I ruled out pairs or a bluff

I know there's a lot more to the post than this, but I wanted to comment on it.  I can understand ruling out a bluff, as some people virtually never do so in this spot.  However, how in the world can you rule out a pair?
I'm not meaning to be rude or here or anything, but I'm just wondering where this read comes from, because it looks very odd to me.

[FSL009]

agreed...

this is the bottom of your range (or it should be) against what is likely a hand that is dominant to yours...

it is actually a pretty easy fold.  regardless of the extra comments...

i thought everyone agreed with it...

But dont take it personally we all learnt that by getting chips in bad with that ahnd over and over again...lol.

[PlayersJet]

I would fold in this situation.  My preference is to be the aggressor at this point in the game, but don't like following aggression.  With a 6x stack you are pretty much looking for any chance to push in order to double up, and you can withstand a few blinds to be the aggressor rather than the caller.  Plus, waiting a little longer might let another player knock themselves out and move up to a much nicer payout going from 4th to 3rd.

[stooks99]

Pretty trivial fold. 

[luckystraights]

however... I called a shove with J6s last night, was a slight favorite vs random hand from BTN shoving at every opportunity.

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    50.606%     48.57%    02.03%        4075519804    170462360.00   { J6s }
Hand 1:    49.394%     47.36%    02.03%        3973845076    170462360.00   { random }

Though ofc v.few players shove ATC, even when they should.

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    38.323%     37.55%    00.77%        1141881444     23537906.00   { J6s }
Hand 1:    61.677%     60.90%    00.77%        1852094648     23537906.00   { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J8s+, T8s+, 96s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

[Gobbs]

I stop playing tournaments in which the blinds double from 500/1K to 1K/2K and find ones with a blind structure that doesn't stink.  Then I don't have to worry about all of a sudden being twice as short-stacked.

KC