4/8 LHE hand

[stooks99]

I was playing in Tunica recently at a pretty average 4/8 hold 'em table.  This, honestly, was the worst table I have ever played at....and by worst, I mean, worst players, so really....I guess it was the best.  I was stuck in this game, and actuallye ended up losing for the session, which was very frustrating because of all the money on the table to be won.  This hand comes up.

I have  utg +2.  One limp, I raise, and I get 4 callers, including the BB and original limper. Pot: $34

Flop:   

the BB leads, limper folds, I raise, MP player 3 bets, and LP player cold calls $9.  BB folds, I cap, both players call.  Pot now stands at $86 appx.

Turn:   
I check, MP bets, LP calls, I call.  Pot now around $110

River: 
I check, MP bets, LP calls, and before I can call, the MP player opens his hand:   

I think for a bit, and I decide to raise, figuring no way LP can have a 10 here and not raise.

Turns out, I was wrong, and both players called, and LP showed  , and I lost watched about $150 go to Mr. 3-bets-cold-with-2nd-pair.

Now, I questioned myself after the hand about raising but decided my hand was way to strong to just call knowing that I can beat the aggressor.  LP could just as easily have AJ/KJ/QQ in his hand and make the same passive play.

Also, I really considered leading the turn, as I was the capper on the flop. The only hand I was really worried about after the flop action was JT, and I still have a fair amount of equity against top two pair before the turn.  So, if he has a naked jack, I'm going to win, if he has JT, I'm virtually dead. 

Thoughts?

[Jaxen]

In limit poker, the value of big pairs goes down. A-K and suited connectors go up, especially in the fish tank that is $4/8.

[stooks99]

In limit poker, the value of big pairs goes down. A-K and suited connectors go up, especially in the fish tank that is $4/8.

I don't get it...is that your answer to how you would have played it?

[NotFadeAway]

The hand looks very good to me.  You built a huge pot with aces and got outdrawn.  There's nothing you could have done differently, except not raise the river, but I like the raise on the end personally.  You have to expect to be good over half the time, and if you're beat you almost certainly won't get 3 bet, so I can't see any reason to flat the river.
So, nh, even if you lost.

[stooks99]

In limit poker, the value of big pairs goes down. A-K and suited connectors go up, especially in the fish tank that is $4/8.

Going back through some old posts looking for something and noticed this.  This statement is almost as ridiculous as it is unhelpful.

[NotFadeAway]

In limit poker, the value of big pairs goes down. A-K and suited connectors go up, especially in the fish tank that is $4/8.

Going back through some old posts looking for something and noticed this.  This statement is almost as ridiculous as it is unhelpful.

I think I get what Jaxen is saying here, even if I disagree.  The number of players contesting the pot makes it harder to win pots, even with big pairs (since you'll win much more often in NL as a result of playing many more 2-3 handed pots.)  It's off, though, at least imo.  Big pairs are exactly what you want and are without a doubt the most profitable hands, especially against 'fish.'
Also, as for what hands change value, I would think that trap hands become more valuable and it's hands like small pairs or SCs that often drop in value.  This is debatable though, and would probably depend on what type of game it is, how deep you are, etc.  In fact, in the right spots, the value of a big pair can be much more in NLHE then LHE, even though big pairs are by far the most profitable hands in either game (at least in my experience.)  So I get what Jaxen was saying there, even if I don't really agree with it.

[kimert]

In limit poker, the value of big pairs goes down. A-K and suited connectors go up, especially in the fish tank that is $4/8.

Going back through some old posts looking for something and noticed this.  This statement is almost as ridiculous as it is unhelpful.

Nice

[stooks99]

In limit poker, the value of big pairs goes down. A-K and suited connectors go up, especially in the fish tank that is $4/8.

Going back through some old posts looking for something and noticed this.  This statement is almost as ridiculous as it is unhelpful.

Nice

Not necessarily.

[kimert]

In limit poker, the value of big pairs goes down. A-K and suited connectors go up, especially in the fish tank that is $4/8.

Going back through some old posts looking for something and noticed this.  This statement is almost as ridiculous as it is unhelpful.

Nice

Not necessarily.

/sarcasm off

[Jaxen]

I was just repeating what others have told me that helped me in playing low-limit limit poker. Maybe I goofed about the "big pairs" and should have just said "pairs".

At low levels, folks will call with their draws, and continue until the river. If they don't hit, they simply yield. So if you play your pair and hit a set, you often have to fade the straight and flush draws. You still get the "but they're sooted" crowd at $4/8. It's even kinda +EV to play that way for one bet in position.

I guess it's just a matter of persepctive which hand you'd want against 5 callers: AK offsuit, 8-8 or 9-10 suited. They're all pretty good, I guess.