Omaha Hi-Lo - Starting hands etc.

[kimert]

Anyone able to point me in direction of some good online literature for this game.
I have no clue how to play properly, starting hands, positions and so on.

I just found out today that you can use two cards for the low and two different cards for the high, thats how much I know^^

What I do know is that this game is a whole lot of fun!

[Martini]

For starting hands I would check out:
http://erh.homestead.com/omaha.html for Omaha Hi only
and
http://ehutchison.homestead.com/omahasystem.html for Omaha Hi/Lo

As for play, remember that Omaha is a game of the Nuts. If you do not have the Nuts or a strong draw (or two) to the Nuts then consider bailing on the hand and finding a better spot. Flush over flush happens all the time. Set over Set is not nearly as rare as it is in Hold'em. Remember that everyone has four cards so there is a lot more out on the table that can be against you. If you have the Nut Flush and get action after the board pairs you are likely no good. There is really no safe hand to slow play except for top Boat or stronger. If you are playing Hi/Lo, the golden rule is to get hands that you can scoop both sides of the pot with. Be patient, choose your spots carefully, and you will clean up against a lot of players, especially ones who have recently come from playing Hold'em.

[Detroitdad]

Listen to Martini. He is correct.

Its not about what you have, its about how you can improve, and what your drawing to. Pots in PLO8 usually get higher, and quicker than the pots in NLHE (especially at the lower stakes).

I don't profess to be any good at PLO8, but damn is it ever a fun game to play. If I'm playing an online tourney, I would rather it be PLO8 or PLO than anything else.

B

[kimert]

Thanks allot guys!
The point counting system looks great, and it wont be to hard to memorize it seems.
You can find me at the 0.1/0.2 cent tables, think I will start there until I can get rid of the worst mistakes.

Did try one session, 1 dollar turned into 2.87, woot! Big bucks here i come! lol

Thanks again!

[Dr. Neau]

Thanks allot guys!
The point counting system looks great, and it wont be to hard to memorize it seems.
You can find me at the 0.1/0.2 cent tables, think I will start there until I can get rid of the worst mistakes.

The single biggest mistake you'll continue to make: Not folding.

[pathand]

I would also suggest that you don't get too trigger happy when raising with the nut low. You're likely to be chopping half the pot depending on how many players are at showdown. It's not always the case, just be careful.

[Detroitdad]

Thanks allot guys!
The point counting system looks great, and it wont be to hard to memorize it seems.
You can find me at the 0.1/0.2 cent tables, think I will start there until I can get rid of the worst mistakes.

The single biggest mistake you'll continue to make: Not folding.

Very True,

If you have a hard time folding sets, straights, and flushes, don't play PLO8

[Martini]

Thanks allot guys!
The point counting system looks great, and it wont be to hard to memorize it seems.
You can find me at the 0.1/0.2 cent tables, think I will start there until I can get rid of the worst mistakes.

Did try one session, 1 dollar turned into 2.87, woot! Big bucks here i come! lol

Thanks again!

Nice work. Another thing to keep in mind is that Omaha(/8) is a high variance game. Players will happily dump in chips with a Set against an obvious Flush in hopes of the board pairing You can easily be way up or down in terms of number of buy ins so be sure to stay properly bankrolled.

[Martini]

Thanks allot guys!
The point counting system looks great, and it wont be to hard to memorize it seems.
You can find me at the 0.1/0.2 cent tables, think I will start there until I can get rid of the worst mistakes.

The single biggest mistake you'll continue to make: Not folding.

Very true. Don't be the one stuck with a King high Flush up against the Nut Flush. Poor pre-flop hand selection is very costly. Just fold, fold, fold. If you are itching for more action then open up more tables instead of playing junk. What you are looking for is to get your money in when you are freerolling against someone else. For example in Omaha high if you and another player both hit Broadway, you want to be the one with a redraw to a Flush or Boat. Or if you have the nut low in O/8 you want to have at least a paired high card, Flush draw, or something so that you can quarter someone who might just be betting their nut low.

[kimert]

I have just been playing this game for a couple of hours now, but all the advices given here has been very true and very helpful. Thank you!
Playing Hold em was getting a bit boring and I was pretty much on autopilot. 
Omaha is very different, I need to concentrate allot more, I'm sure partly because its new to me, but also because the game is way more complex.

Making allot of mistakes, have probably been slapping my forehead a couple of hundred times during these hours,
but man, I'm having fun:)

Going to reread all the tips here a couple of dozen more times until they stick.

[Detroitdad]

Not that I profess to be great at PLO8, hell, even good............but next time were playing at the same time, we can do a PLO8 cash table and discuss hands as their played out. Obviously not while the hand is going on, but at the completion of the hand. We could do it in a thread here.

[kimert]

Not that I profess to be great at PLO8, hell, even good............but next time were playing at the same time, we can do a PLO8 cash table and discuss hands as their played out. Obviously not while the hand is going on, but at the completion of the hand. We could do it in a thread here.

Sounds great!

[brianb10]

How does PLO hand selection change during a tournament as the blinds go up?  Is it like hold em where you open up more or do you try to stick to the basics outlined here?

[kimert]

Im up 602 big blinds! woot! 602 BB Sounds allot cooler than $6.20 lol

DD, Im starting my night shifts on monday, so I will probably be online at the same time as you, if you are going to play this week.

[brianb10]

I have to admit, I am hooked on PLO 8/b.  My thoughts and observations so far...
- you really fold a lot.  Last session was almost 200 hands and I folded pre-flop about 60% of them.

- throwing away pocket pairs, sets, and straights seems weird at first but you quickly see how those who can't are losing their buy-in's. 

- why can't i be this disciplined in hold'em?

- I tried to stick to the hand selection advice offered earlier in this thread and it was very helpful.  Only thing I noticed was that whenever I have a powerful hand (30+ points) it never hit.

- patience seems to be the name of the game which suits me pretty well.

- I was down about a half of buy-in last night after 200 hands but the losses were mostly early on where I made a crying call just to see what people were playing.  I felt seeing hands folks (who were winning) were playing was the only way to learn.

My questions are:
- is raising pre-flop (at low stakes, I am playing .01/.02) really a good idea?  we always seem to have 7+ to the flop.  Even with the premium hands (30+ points) should you be raising preflop or wait until the flop?  Farha's book says check calling in Omaha is bad but raising really never worked for me last night.

- Farha also said to let go of your hand when you lost the opportunity to scoop the pot and have only the low to draw to.  Does that sound correct?

All in all I had a hoot and see myself playing a bit more Omaha than hold'em now just for the change of scenery.

[Martini]

If you have a premium hand then you want to be raising for value and should welcome other people coming along. For those times that you do hit and win you can end up quartering or stacking someone with an inferior low and/or high to you because people play dominated junk. If you miss then just dump it and wait for another hand. Remember that you are folding a lot of hands.

Seeing 40% of Flops sounds too high though I don't know what a good number should be for O/8.

Farha is almost certainly referring to real Omaha and O/8, not microstakes. I would say that it is a mistake in general to fold when you have one side of the pot locked up. Even if you get quartered every once in a while there are just too many people playing junk that I would say it is EV+ to see the hand through unless you are playing way deep stacked which I wouldn't recommend.

[Detroitdad]

If you have a premium hand then you want to be raising for value and should welcome other people coming along. For those times that you do hit and win you can end up quartering or stacking someone with an inferior low and/or high to you because people play dominated junk. If you miss then just dump it and wait for another hand. Remember that you are folding a lot of hands.

Seeing 40% of Flops sounds too high though I don't know what a good number should be for O/8.

Farha is almost certainly referring to real Omaha and O/8, not microstakes. I would say that it is a mistake in general to fold when you have one side of the pot locked up. Even if you get quartered every once in a while there are just too many people playing junk that I would say it is EV+ to see the hand through unless you are playing way deep stacked which I wouldn't recommend.

ditto to everything Martini said.  I'm usually in the 20-30 percentile of hands played.

As for raising pre flop at these stakes. I only do it with premium hands that will draw to the nuts with the Hi and the Low. Then if the texture of the flop hits both, or even gives me strong draws to the nuts to scoop the pot, I'm potting it every chance I get. You will see players playing "pocket ace's" as their best hand with no re draws.

Thread Jack: We played cash last night, .25/.50. 5-7 players. We did two orbits of NLHE and 2 orbits of PLO. I loved it. PLO is so much damn fun. The company was great.

Bought in for $50, cashed out at $168. Of course I lost my $50 tourney buy in when I finished 7th out of 10.

Bill

[brianb10]

I'm gonna watch that 40% and see if it comes down.  I think a lot of those hands came early when I was playing more loose as I was trying to learn.  I was not playing nearly as much towards the end, going several orbits playing only my blinds when they were limped around to me.

[Detroitdad]

All this talk, I think I'm playing a little PLO. Join me on Stars if you like.

[Martini]

I'm gonna watch that 40% and see if it comes down.  I think a lot of those hands came early when I was playing more loose as I was trying to learn.  I was not playing nearly as much towards the end, going several orbits playing only my blinds when they were limped around to me.

Depends on where you get the 40%. I assume just from the site's stats and if that's the case then it is including times when you are in the BB in a limped pot so that would be somewhat higher than voluntarily putting money in the pot. 40% still seems steep though. If you are serious about tracking your stats there is software that you can run hand histories through to get better numbers.

[brianb10]

I'm gonna watch that 40% and see if it comes down.  I think a lot of those hands came early when I was playing more loose as I was trying to learn.  I was not playing nearly as much towards the end, going several orbits playing only my blinds when they were limped around to me.

Depends on where you get the 40%. I assume just from the site's stats and if that's the case then it is including times when you are in the BB in a limped pot so that would be somewhat higher than voluntarily putting money in the pot. 40% still seems steep though. If you are serious about tracking your stats there is software that you can run hand histories through to get better numbers.

Yeah that is the sites stats I am quoting.  I have poker tracker but need to reinstall it on the new laptop.  Will do that today.

[Martini]

How does PLO hand selection change during a tournament as the blinds go up?  Is it like hold em where you open up more or do you try to stick to the basics outlined here?

Your range should be dictated more by the amount of orbits of blinds/antes you have and not so much by the amount of the blinds. But yeah, in general you need to open up your range later in the tourney when your stack/blind ratio gets lower and as you get shorter handed if you make it to final table.

[Dr. Neau]

(Click to show/hide)

ANOTHER CHOP!?!?!

[kimert]

Seen allot of those, but man is it nice when you scoop the whole thing^^

(Click to show/hide)

ANOTHER CHOP!?!?!

[mike32]

Like many here I will not profess to be a good Omaha 8 player but one piece of advice that has served me well is that 9's taint a hand. I think if you have a 9 in your hand you can argue an insta-fold no matter what your other 3 cards are. i am sure this is not true for an advanced player, but for a guy like me it is good advice.

Lost a nice pot to my wife this Sat. night with no low on the board and a king high flush for me, you can guess what she had!

[Martini]

Like many here I will not profess to be a good Omaha 8 player but one piece of advice that has served me well is that 9's taint a hand. I think if you have a 9 in your hand you can argue an insta-fold no matter what your other 3 cards are. i am sure this is not true for an advanced player, but for a guy like me it is good advice.
...

Not just 9s but you can throw 6s, 7s, and 8s in there as well. Bill Boston refers to them as "bandit" cards because of how much you'll lose playing them. Playing cards from 6 through 9 in O/8 will basically give you a) a crappy low b) the sucker end of Straights in hi only hands, or c) only half the pot when you do have the Nut Straight.

[Dr. Neau]

Well, I'd play ...