Dude Wins Ladies Event..

[mzk721]

WOW!!!!

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2009/09/male-borgata-player-wins-ladies-event-but-loses-self-respect-7230.htm

[abcgifts]

That's unbelievable...maybe the guy thought it was a great chance to meet women?!  If so, he didn't realize that it was basically a way to make every woman dislike him!

[Martini]

I thought that casinos could ban anyone for any reason since it is a private property. Couldn't they just ask him to leave the premises instead of allowing him to play in the tourney? Not only should they have been able to kick him out for any arbitrary reason but he was causing a disturbance among the participants of that tournament. I would imagine that they would ask him to leave if he refused to use the men's room and used the women's restroom instead so why let him play in the ladies only tournament?

[Edit: fixed typo]

[Yankee]

It is just a jerk move.  It's not really an argument of could he do it, it is should he do it.  Why would you want to join something or be a part of something that no one wants you to?  Skill level aside, I can see woman being more comfortable being around woman.  To buy in to this tourney is a total d-bag move.

All that aside, I have his back when it comes to chopping the pot.  Regardless of the reason you should not feel obligated to chop.

[luckystraights]

Surprised people even care, then again I'm not really in favor of non-mixed events so w/e.

Congrats on a win IMO, nothing else really matters, if u take offense just at someones presence then he probably doesn't give a sh%t about there opinion anyway, so fair game to me.

On the flip side, maybe he doesn't like to play in tournaments vs men isn't that really the same argument used for these women only tournaments.

I also don't like the consistent use of "level playing field", it suggest women are generally at a lower standard when it comes to men playing poker.

[Martini]

...
Congrats on a win IMO, nothing else really matters...

Nice sportsmanship.

[Lumpy50]

...
Congrats on a win IMO, nothing else really matters...

Nice sportsmanship.

Isn't poker a game based on finding a weakness or advantage and exploiting it for all the money you can? Is what this guy did tasteless? Sure it is. If given the opportunity would I do the same? Not really; I probably wouldn't donate to charity. I don't play poker to have fun; I play to earn money. This guy found a loophole and exploited it.

[luckystraights]

I think the tone of people's offense to this is bordering too close on sexism for my taste, which is why laws are enacted to allow this to happen. He's legally entitled to play, if people don't like it I'm sure there are plenty of thereapy coaches where they can go and cry about it if it offends them so much.

If he finished at the bottom would this even make the "headlines" probably not.

[Yankee]

I think the tone of people's offense to this is bordering too close on sexism for my taste, which is why laws are enacted to allow this to happen. He's legally entitled to play, if people don't like it I'm sure there are plenty of thereapy coaches where they can go and cry about it if it offends them so much.

If he finished at the bottom would this even make the "headlines" probably not.

Luckally the government steps in to regulate ethics and morality.  Can the people who are offeneded about being excluded go cry to these same therapy coaches??

[luckystraights]

I think the tone of people's offense to this is bordering too close on sexism for my taste, which is why laws are enacted to allow this to happen. He's legally entitled to play, if people don't like it I'm sure there are plenty of thereapy coaches where they can go and cry about it if it offends them so much.

If he finished at the bottom would this even make the "headlines" probably not.

Luckally the government steps in to regulate ethics and morality.  Can the people who are offeneded about being excluded go cry to these same therapy coaches??

I don't get u, no one is excluded, and no one is excluded by law, whats your point?

[fatman1326]

I think it is stupid D bag move on that guys part.... most poker tourneys are 90% men... I understand if some women wouldnt be comfortable in a normal tournament... I mean I think thats one reason my finacee wont go to my pub tournaments. Just because he could play in it doesnt mean he should. There were other tourneys more than likely, why play in one that the people dont want you in it?

[luckystraights]

He's not a d-bag, he's a poker player, playing in a game where he is legally entitled to play, nothing else needs to be said, if people take offense they can go home and start a home game, that is there right too.

[Detroitdad]

How many "Men Only" tourney's are hosted by the same place?  Just curious

[AzCat]

Uh.....who cares.

[Dr. Neau]

[hayjamawas]

is that phil gordon in drag???

[R-Ho]

I thought that casinos could ban anyone for any reason since it is a private property. Couldn't they just ask him to leave the premises instead of allowing him to play in the tourney? Not only should they have been able to kick him out for any arbitrary reason but he was causing a disturbance among the participants of that tournament. I would imagine that they would ask him to leave if he refused to use the men's room and used the women's restroom instead so why let him play in the ladies only tournament?

[Edit: fixed typo]

Ask Denny's management about that.

[Martini]

I thought that casinos could ban anyone for any reason since it is a private property. Couldn't they just ask him to leave the premises instead of allowing him to play in the tourney? Not only should they have been able to kick him out for any arbitrary reason but he was causing a disturbance among the participants of that tournament. I would imagine that they would ask him to leave if he refused to use the men's room and used the women's restroom instead so why let him play in the ladies only tournament?

[Edit: fixed typo]

Ask Denny's management about that.

I don't recall reading any stories about Denny's kicking anyone out lately. Do you have any links? And I suspect that any news story would likely involve discrimination based on gender or race which would not apply in this case since they would be asking him to leave for causing a disturbance instead.

[R-Ho]

I thought that casinos could ban anyone for any reason since it is a private property. Couldn't they just ask him to leave the premises instead of allowing him to play in the tourney? Not only should they have been able to kick him out for any arbitrary reason but he was causing a disturbance among the participants of that tournament. I would imagine that they would ask him to leave if he refused to use the men's room and used the women's restroom instead so why let him play in the ladies only tournament?

[Edit: fixed typo]

Ask Denny's management about that.

I don't recall reading any stories about Denny's kicking anyone out lately.

They stopped after it cost them $54 million in the 1990's.

...discrimination based on gender or race which would not apply in this case since they would be asking him to leave for causing a disturbance instead.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think 'being a male' legally equates to 'causing a disturbance' in a public place such as this.

[Martini]

I thought that casinos could ban anyone for any reason since it is a private property. Couldn't they just ask him to leave the premises instead of allowing him to play in the tourney? Not only should they have been able to kick him out for any arbitrary reason but he was causing a disturbance among the participants of that tournament. I would imagine that they would ask him to leave if he refused to use the men's room and used the women's restroom instead so why let him play in the ladies only tournament?

[Edit: fixed typo]

Ask Denny's management about that.

I don't recall reading any stories about Denny's kicking anyone out lately.

They stopped after it cost them $54 million in the 1990's.

...discrimination based on gender or race which would not apply in this case since they would be asking him to leave for causing a disturbance instead.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think 'being a male' legally equates to 'causing a disturbance' in a public place such as this.

I highly suspect that the Denny's issue had to do with illegally discriminating against customers due to race but if you have links that say otherwise I'll gladly read them. IANAL either but I was not suggesting he be thrown out of the casino because he was male but because he was disrupting a ladies only tournament. Since there were other tournaments he could have played in, the casino was not keeping him from playing in a tourney. The ladies only tourney was a promotion intended for a certain group, just like ladies night in a bar where they get discounted drinks or discounted movie tickets for kids. That is different from discrimination.

[R-Ho]

I thought that casinos could ban anyone for any reason since it is a private property. Couldn't they just ask him to leave the premises instead of allowing him to play in the tourney? Not only should they have been able to kick him out for any arbitrary reason but he was causing a disturbance among the participants of that tournament. I would imagine that they would ask him to leave if he refused to use the men's room and used the women's restroom instead so why let him play in the ladies only tournament?

[Edit: fixed typo]

Ask Denny's management about that.

I don't recall reading any stories about Denny's kicking anyone out lately.

They stopped after it cost them $54 million in the 1990's.

...discrimination based on gender or race which would not apply in this case since they would be asking him to leave for causing a disturbance instead.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think 'being a male' legally equates to 'causing a disturbance' in a public place such as this.

I highly suspect that the Denny's issue had to do with illegally discriminating against customers due to race but if you have links that say otherwise I'll gladly read them. I was not suggesting he be thrown out of the casino because he was male but because he was disrupting a ladies only tournament. Since there were other tournaments he could have played in, the casino was not keeping him from playing in a tourney. The ladies only tourney was a promotion intended for a certain group, just like ladies night in a bar where they get discounted drinks or discounted movie tickets for kids. That is different from discrimination.

I'm sorry, I missed the 'racial vs sex' focus of your inquiry 'til now.  My reference to Denny's was to serve as an example of 'denial of service' discrimination occurring in a private business which, in their case, cost the parent company a lot of money.  I wasn't distinguishing between racial and sexual discriminiation.  I'll set Denny's case aside here.

On point: had the OP's 'Ladies Only' tournament been a 'White's Only' tournament, with the casino running a 'mixed race' tourney across the hall; would you be OK with that?  Would you condone the casino escorting an insistent black man out the white door because he's 'causing a disturbance' for the whites?

To enter any casino-sponsored tournament, one must sign a legal contract with the casino. 'Contracts' in genreral are specifically cited by US civil rights/discrimination laws; and law requires that such contracts are to be offered regardless of a person's ethnicity, gender, or beliefs. Therefore, a casino must allow any man or woman to enter any tournament sponsored by the casino.

That most tourney contestants are men is not discrimination or favoritism. The entry barrier is simply the price of admission, which is basically free enterprise, fair to all, and represents no sexual or racial bias.  I don't expect the casinos to be in the business of political reparations.

As to 'Ladies Night' bar specials...I'd say they are 'technically' illegal if I were pressed on the point.  But I don't think anyone, in their right mind, would bother to contest them.  Well, at least I don't plan to.

R-Ho

[72]

i've been kicked out of Denny's before....with my friends.... drunk and causing a disturbance. LOL

[Dr. Neau]

The ladies only tourney was a promotion intended for a certain group, just like ladies night in a bar where they get discounted drinks or discounted movie tickets for kids. That is different from discrimination.

As a note, "Ladies Night" type events were banned in Minnesota in 1992 because they discriminated against men.

I never thought about kids movie tickets...but I DO think that senior discounts need to go

[pathand]

...but I DO think that senior discounts need to go

Not until after I get my turn, young'n!   

[Milo]

1,3,4,2,5

[OMG_Beavers]

Excerpt taken from http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20090915_Poker_Guy__She_s_calling_it_a_bad_deal_in_A_C_.html

He explained that he entered the women's competition after quickly being eliminated from another, more-expensive tournament in which he went "all-in" with a pair of aces against two pair.

He said that he simply "wanted to get back on the horse," and signed up because he had earlier seen "five to 10" other men in the registration line.

Borgata officials said that they were not aware of any other male participants, nor were any other men pointed out by female players.

Korotki insisted that Borgata staffers never told him that he couldn't play in the tournament and insisted that he wouldn't have made a fuss if he'd been asked to stay out of it.

"I have great respect for the people at Borgata," he said.

"If someone had said, 'Abe, you can play, but please don't,' I would have said, 'Fine,' and gone home and been bored until the next tournament."

<rant>Looks to me like it ws a simple mis-understanding.  But what it all boils down to is that private or public, a casino can not discriminate against race, sexual orientation or gender.  Yes, casino are private entities, but they are governed by the state in which they reside and have to follow those rules.

I don't care if there a "Ladies Only" events... but what's going to be next?  Whites only?  Blacks only?

Yes, poker is a primarily "male" sport, but to have "Ladies Events" is bordering on patronizing.  It's like telling a woman that she isn't good enough to run with the big dogs.  It's like saying, "Oh... you're too intimidated by playing with men?  Then here's a tournament just for you.  And when it's over then you can get back to cooking and cleaning for your man." 

Back to the issue at hand... I'm not saying what he did was right, but if it was based on a simple misunderstanding, then there is nothing that can be done.  Whether it was right or not, he paid his money and played.  Maybe someone at the cage could have mentioned that he was registering for a Ladies Event.  While they couldn't legally exclude him from the tourney, the registrar could have simply said, "You know this is a Ladies Tournament, right?"  That statement doesn't say that he can't play, just making him aware of it.

As for the Tilt Boys, that was just funny.  They knew it was Ladies and dressed the part.  And there were 5 of them.  This guy wasn't trying to be funny or make any sort of statement.  I would say that if he did dress in drag then there was intent and he knew exactly what he was doing.

On the flip side let's assume that he did know all along that it was a ladies event.  Aren't we taught, as poker players, to take whatever edge you can in order to win?  To exploit weakness?  That there are no friends at the tables?  There is no black, white, gay, straight, male or female?  There is only another human standing in your way of winning.

I'm all for letting it go.  Yes it's sad that the 2nd place finisher needed money for her medical bills, but if you have an edge, why would you chop up a prize pool?  What if he came in 2nd place?  What if it was her and another woman?  Did she ever mention to him that she needed the money for her medical bills?  Would this be such a big deal if it was some other woman that didn't have cancer?  These are questions we don't have the answers to.  This is all because he won, didn't want to chop and the woman he beat needed the money.  Last I checked, I need money too... </rant>

P.S.  I'm all for the fight against breast cancer as my mother-in-law was able to fight it and my own mother is currently battling the disease.  SAVE THE TA-TAS!

[Blaster]

Looks like it has happened again this year, man wins Ladies WSOP circut event.,.:

http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/greg-sessler-wins-ladies-championship-at-lake-tahoe-wsop-circuit-stop-6408/

[austin5string]

All legalities aside, what kind of a douchebag do you have to be to enter what is intended to be an event just for women?

[pathand]

Probably an ACLU lawyer. What a potlicker!