Bridge & Poker Size

[Trident Cards]

Bridge (Grey/Green)



Poker (Blue/Red)

[Squiggly]

Tease. 

Are these the new Dal Negro cards you were talking about?

Acetate? Plastic? Details, Alex, Details!!

Chris

[murrman]

Tease. 

Are these the new Dal Negro cards you were talking about?

Acetate? Plastic? Details, Alex, Details!!

Chris

What he said!

[links_slayer]

those would be mighty purty with some pny's

[Trident Cards]

Hi All,

I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to post in a while. Yes, say hello to the new Dal Negro plastic cards. As some of you know, we've been working on these beauties for a long time. They're finally here.

Everything about these cards is new. Even the AoS and jokers were custom designed for us:

The Freedom Star back design has been improved a little since the last iteration. And of course the faces are different . . . .

In a couple of days I'm going to explain the concept in detail. But the objective is obvious: a better dual index card. We named this design the "X-Ray Index^TM." This actually wasn't our first choice. It probably was the eleventh design we produced with Dal Negro. But we printed some mockups and ran some tests, and this was the game changer (so to speak). I'll be the first one to tell you that any changes you make to the card faces will result in trade-offs. Now you know why I asked my now infamous question: "Which hand do you use?" 

We're running some tests and getting ready to launch the new cards. They will be available on a wholesale basis at www.DalNegroDirect.com and some of our own online stores.

In the meantime, we need help coming up with a name for these cards. So if you have any thoughts, please post them here. Thanks.

--------------------------E

[jhickle]

How about "Freedom X"

Is the composition of these new cards the same as the prototype deck you had me try about a year ago?
    (hoping so..........)

[Squiggly]

How about "Freedom X"

FTW

[Jupiter3]

Link-Slayer is totally with it:  These cards need some PNYs to match.  "Freedom X" is a fine name for cards.  The Joker looks like a cross between a circus clown and one of the X-Men.  When can I order some of these?

[jv956]

  The Joker looks like a cross between a circus clown and one of the X-Men.  

looks like a matador to me

[Midnight Rose]

  The Joker looks like a cross between a circus clown and one of the X-Men.   

looks like a matador to me

Honestly, he looks like a Slayer to me.
And dude...sweet cards.

[links_slayer]

  The Joker looks like a cross between a circus clown and one of the X-Men.   

looks like a matador to me

Honestly, he looks like a Slayer to me.

heyyyyy, i resemble that remark.

[Midnight Rose]

  The Joker looks like a cross between a circus clown and one of the X-Men.   

looks like a matador to me

Honestly, he looks like a Slayer to me.

heyyyyy, i resemble that remark.

Would it help if I said that I find men holding their spear, to be sexy as all get-up?

[pauld22]

The joker is awesome.

How about "Invert-a-Pips" or (Dal) "Neg-a-Pips" ('cause they're,like, negatives an' stuff).

[Midnight Rose]

"Dal Negro Liberty Stars".

That, or "DN Slayers".  Which is actually my first choice, but you rarely see cards named after their jokers.

[Trident Cards]

All of the name suggestions were great but Freedom X stood out and that's how the new cards have been baptized. They're making their way into some of our online stores and they currently are available at:

www.TridentCards.com (international shipping available)

www.AnchorPlayingCards.com

www.Amazon.com

www.PacificPuzzles.com

They will be available at more online stores and marketplaces this week.

Even without the X-Ray Index these cards are great. They have a nice snap without being thick and stiff. And the graphics are sharp.

The X-Ray Index is the icing on the cake. One reason it works so well is that we asked experienced players to test mockups of the designs. This allowed us to improve the design before going to press (well over a year after we placed the order). The main tradeoff is asymmetry - but we found that folks quickly learned to peel up the right corner. The traditional position of the jumbo index doesn't require a major adjustment. And the "straight" index does not create an optical illusion that the cards are spinning on the table as happens with angled indexes - at least according to some comments.

The design of the pips took a lot of time. They needed to be "fuller" so the rank symbol would fit inside and look "right" - on paper they looked a little heavy but in the flesh they came out much better than expected. The font has some custom features, such as the foot on the "9" to help avoid confusion with the "6". The security ink was is natural choice given that the core objective is to avoid flashing your hand when peeking at the cards.

We continue to grow by focusing on premium products. These cards were a labor of love by a lot of folks. We hope you like 'em. Thank you.

[Midnight Rose]

All of the name suggestions were great but Freedom X stood out and that's how the new cards have been baptized. They're making their way into some of our online stores and they currently are available at:

If I'm a direct blood relative of Malcolm X, can I get a setup for free?

[Detroitdad]

All of the name suggestions were great but Freedom X stood out and that's how the new cards have been baptized. They're making their way into some of our online stores and they currently are available at:

If I'm a direct blood relative of Malcolm X, can I get a setup for free?

You to? 

[Midnight Rose]

All of the name suggestions were great but Freedom X stood out and that's how the new cards have been baptized. They're making their way into some of our online stores and they currently are available at:

If I'm a direct blood relative of Malcolm X, can I get a setup for free?

You to? 

Cousin!

[Detroitdad]

All of the name suggestions were great but Freedom X stood out and that's how the new cards have been baptized. They're making their way into some of our online stores and they currently are available at:

If I'm a direct blood relative of Malcolm X, can I get a setup for free?

damn, now I have to stop those impure thoughts
You to? 

Cousin!

[jhickle]

All of the name suggestions were great but Freedom X stood out and that's how the new cards have been baptized.

So what did I win 

[Midnight Rose]

damn, now I have to stop those impure thoughts

Man, if I knew that that's all it took, I would've told you we were related a long time ago.

[Wick125]

Love the look of these. I just had to buy some. Can't wait for them to arrive.

[Detroitdad]

damn, now I have to stop those impure thoughts

Man, if I knew that that's all it took, I would've told you we were related a long time ago.

Whatever babe

[jhickle]

All of the name suggestions were great but Freedom X stood out and that's how the new cards have been baptized.

So what did I win  

Alex - You Rock!!!!
Received the Poker Size Red/Blue set-up in the mail today.  Many Thanks!!!!!
These will be put into play this weekend.
I love everything about these....XRay-Jumbo PIPs. Blue/Red & Gold Backs, security ink and the feel and flexibility of these cards are perfect.
Thanks again - Jim

[Jupiter3]

   I received the Freedom-X (Red/Gold and Blue/Gold) backs today.  Sorry guys, but I am less than impressed.  The backs look nowhere as near as pretty as the pictures from Trident in this thread.  The artwork on the backs is not as crisp.  The jokers look like something out of Circqe-de-Sole.  Colors are muted (I don't like security red ink!)

   I purchased because I have only one other Dal Negro setup (Freedom Green & Brown) that I purchased only a month ago.  I wanted to give Dal Negro a fair chance.  These cards are sold by the individual deck, not a dual deck setup and they come in plain cardboard tight-fit cases.  These are some of the most expensive cards that I have purchased, I expected a better case than this.

   The cards themselves are thin and flexible.  They bend and snap back like you expect.  The artwork on the faces seems normal.  These cards have the dual "X-Ray" index.  The jumbo index on the left of the card face is OK and the suit is below it.  On the right side, the standard sized index, the pip is inside the suit.  OK, that works.  Two jokers and one card with a blank face (?) is included.

    All-in-All, these are just what I would expect from a $3.00 deck of Bicycle paper cards that I buy at my local drug store.  I really don't see the value for the price that I paid.  Comparatively, the Freedom setup of Dal Negros that I purchased earlier, is a fine setup of cards.  Not my favorite, but a fine setup.  Did Bicycle (USPC) purchase Dal Negro?

[jhickle]

   I received the Freedom-X (Red/Gold and Blue/Gold) backs today.  Sorry guys, but I am less than impressed.  The backs look nowhere as near as pretty as the pictures from Trident in this thread.  The artwork on the backs is not as crisp.  The jokers look like something out of Circqe-de-Sole.  Colors are muted (I don't like security red ink!)

   I purchased because I have only one other Dal Negro setup (Freedom Green & Brown) that I purchased only a month ago.  I wanted to give Dal Negro a fair chance.  These cards are sold by the individual deck, not a dual deck setup and they come in plain cardboard tight-fit cases.  These are some of the most expensive cards that I have purchased, I expected a better case than this.

   The cards themselves are thin and flexible.  They bend and snap back like you expect.  The artwork on the faces seems normal.  These cards have the dual "X-Ray" index.  The jumbo index on the left of the card face is OK and the suit is below it.  On the right side, the standard sized index, the pip is inside the suit.  OK, that works.  Two jokers and one card with a blank face (?) is included.

    All-in-All, these are just what I would expect from a $3.00 deck of Bicycle paper cards that I buy at my local drug store.  I really don't see the value for the price that I paid.  Comparatively, the Freedom setup of Dal Negros that I purchased earlier, is a fine setup of cards.  Not my favorite, but a fine setup.  Did Bicycle (USPC) purchase Dal Negro?

So what is your real gripe?  Everything you claimed was wrong with these cards (outside of the thin and flexible comment) should of been known by just looking at the pictures posted in this thread and on Tridents website.
Did you expect to receive a different Joker with these cards?  Were you expecting a nicer dual case even though these are sold by individual decks?  Were you expecting something other than red security ink?
You knew all these facts pre-purchase, but you went ahead and bought them, so I really don't understand your beef.
But to compare them to Bicycle Paper and ask the stupid question if USPC bought Dal Negro is so wrong.
I would suggest that you stick with the $3 Bicycle Paper cards.
btw.....I can buy those at my local drug store for $1.99/deck so you are also getting hosed there.

[Midnight Rose]

   I received the Freedom-X (Red/Gold and Blue/Gold) backs today.  Sorry guys, but I am less than impressed.  The backs look nowhere as near as pretty as the pictures from Trident in this thread.  The artwork on the backs is not as crisp.  The jokers look like something out of Circqe-de-Sole.  Colors are muted (I don't like security red ink!)

   I purchased because I have only one other Dal Negro setup (Freedom Green & Brown) that I purchased only a month ago.  I wanted to give Dal Negro a fair chance.  These cards are sold by the individual deck, not a dual deck setup and they come in plain cardboard tight-fit cases.  These are some of the most expensive cards that I have purchased, I expected a better case than this.

   The cards themselves are thin and flexible.  They bend and snap back like you expect.  The artwork on the faces seems normal.  These cards have the dual "X-Ray" index.  The jumbo index on the left of the card face is OK and the suit is below it.  On the right side, the standard sized index, the pip is inside the suit.  OK, that works.  Two jokers and one card with a blank face (?) is included.

    All-in-All, these are just what I would expect from a $3.00 deck of Bicycle paper cards that I buy at my local drug store.  I really don't see the value for the price that I paid.  Comparatively, the Freedom setup of Dal Negros that I purchased earlier, is a fine setup of cards.  Not my favorite, but a fine setup.  Did Bicycle (USPC) purchase Dal Negro?

Wow.  Those are pretty strong words.  Unlike jhickle, I won't try to dispute your opinion - after all, each of us is entitled.  I just disagree with you.

Needless to say, I just received my bridge-sized green & grays (thanks Alex, you're The Nuts).  I'm definitely in agreement with jhickle's first statement about how right these feel.  I never expect a hard case from Dal Negro, so no disappointments there.  I think the fronts and backs were correctly represented here and on Trident's site; I don't find any difference between the images here and the cards themselves.  I definitely don't find the cards "thin" at all.  That's a descriptor for Copags; it never, ever fits for DN cards.  They're thinner than my Torcellos, sure; but they're not in any way, shape, or form Copag-thin.  And as jhickle said, they were already described as having security ink, so no surprise there.

But I have to say, I definitely take exception to you comparing these cards to a $3 deck of Bikes. That's just blasphemy, sir.  Really, your last paragraph doesn't help state your case.  Not because they're DNs or even because they're sold by Trident.  Not even Royals should be compared to crap paper cards.

[Jupiter3]

I'm sorry if you got the impression that I am taking exception to the DNs as being thin and flexible.  These are actually very good points.  Bendindg and snapping back are also very good, the cards would be fairly useless if they were not.  They just have a feel like the first deck of cards I got with the plastic chips as a gift.  Something must be wrong with the cards I received.  The Freedom setup I bought a month ago is a fine(!) setup of cards and don't have that plastic-coated-paper that I feel with these Freedom-X.  I feel this is not a brilliant step forward for Dal Negro.  I will look forward to purchasing at least one setup of their next formulation with much hope!

[Midnight Rose]

I'm sorry if you got the impression that I am taking exception to the DNs as being thin and flexible.  These are actually very good points.  Bendindg and snapping back are also very good, the cards would be fairly useless if they were not.  They just have a feel like the first deck of cards I got with the plastic chips as a gift.  Something must be wrong with the cards I received.  The Freedom setup I bought a month ago is a fine(!) setup of cards and don't have that plastic-coated-paper that I feel with these Freedom-X.  I feel this is not a brilliant step forward for Dal Negro.  I will look forward to purchasing at least one setup of their next formulation with much hope!

It's very possible that you got a bad setup.  Alex is great to work with; I'm sure you guys can work something out.  I will say, though, that I agree with you about how weird it was to get a blank card.  It would've been better if that had been blank on both sides, then you could use it as a proper cut card.

[Wick125]

Got my two poker size decks today. LOVE THEM!!!  Thanks Trident!!

[Trident Cards]

Hi all,

I need to make this quick as I may need to travel unexpectedly. In terms of the design - just as with other dual index cards - we expect that some folks will like them and that some will not.

In terms of "feel" - these cards should feel a bit different than previous generation Dal Negro cards. "Papery" is a good way to describe them. My recollection is that historically this has been perceived as a positive attribute. Thinner, perhaps. Good snap. That being said, there are sharp preferences out there.

In terms of quality, when I get back I'll flesh out my thoughts, but these are premium cards. This is an area that we care about. Thanks.

Best,

----------E

[Jambine]

I’ll throw in my 2 cents here.    I received bridge size jumbo index green and grey decks (thanks Alex).  The grey is actually closer to black, so I’ll call it black.

Subjective:
1. The black back is absolutely beautiful with the gold print.  I love the backs.

2. I prefer the standard Dal Negro suits to these.  The graphics are a bit too soft (rounded) and don’t jump out for immediate identification like the regular DN index.

3. I’m not a big fan of 4-pip cards, but it’s not that big a deal to me (I never look at my hand backwards).  The “X-Ray” index is small enough that it’s not confusing on the board.



Objective:  As a dealer, I treated the deck as I would in any game at work.  I was not especially easy or hard on the cards, I simply handled them as I normally would.

1. I ran the green deck for about 10 minutes (shuffle, pitch, muck, wash, rinse & repeat).

2. I dealt a few hands each of Hold-Em, Omaha, and Stud.  Every hand was opened with a snap.

3. There was no discernable warping after 10 minutes.  The cards returned to flat immediately.

4. The cards shuffled easily and are more pliable than my regular Freedoms, although they are actually a bit thicker:
   Freedom green 0.635” / Freedom X green 0.642”
   Freedom brown 0.639” / Freedom X black 0.644”

5. They are a bit too slippery for my taste, but that may change after some play.  I’ll reserve judgment on that until later.



Overall:  I like these cards and would rate them as premium quality, comparable to Kem.  They feel much like Kem except for the slippery finish (again, that may change with some play).  At about $25 a set-up, I would say they are as good a value as Kem Circle Backs (IMHO).

[Midnight Rose]

I’ll throw in my 2 cents here.    I received bridge size jumbo index green and grey decks (thanks Alex).  The grey is actually closer to black, so I’ll call it black.

I think of that shade as "charcoal".

[MurraytheKay]

We had our Friday night session this past week using the red-blue poker sized cards. Thanks, Alex, once again! You are the best!
The consensus was somewhat mixed.
No one disliked them, but no one was crazy head over heels over them.
The texture and playability of the cards is great, they have an excellent feel and shuffleability.The material is A1.
The graphics on the backs could be sharper, so the Statue of Liberty would stand out instead of blend in, but this is not a big deal.
The actual X-ray index was seen as a curiosity, or novelty. Most players looked at their cards the same way they have been doing for the last 30 years...it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks!
The main beef with these cards is the similarity in shape between the clubs and spades. The rounded images are difficult to distinguish from across the table.....I was thinking that these cards would be really great as a 4-color deck, but as is, they require paying more attention than is usual with any other premium cards, and unnecessary mistakes can and do happen. I find it amazing that this was not picked up in the testing phase, especially if a group of experienced players was using them for a normal session. Even the x-ray spades and clubs are very similar in shape, and require an extra long look for proper verification. The shape of the pips in the regular Dal Negro freedoms are perfect...if it's not broke don't fix it! Unless everyone sitting at a full size table is under 25 with razor sharp vision, or you are using a round table where everyone is close to the action, in all honesty, I really cannot recommend these cards over any other top quality cards out there. I prefer the regular Dal Negro or Modiano acetates.

[Midnight Rose]

Excellent review, MurraytheKay.

[Squiggly]

Received my Freedom X today. Thanks Alex!!

Upon initially opening the deck and riffling them, I was pleased to find that they feel similar to the Torcello's (my favorites) in stiffness and texture. The suits will take a bit of getting used to, however I like the concept. These are my first "peek" type cards as I have steered away from them before now. The different suit shapes add distinction to the set, however they will take some getting used to. The back design is bright and different from anything else on the market. Being Canadian, the symbolism doesn't mean as much to me personally as my USA brethren, but again I understand and like the concept.

I have vacation starting this weekend, so I can't wait to put them into play next weekend. I will certainly pass on feedback on these cards from my players.