"PokerPro" Tables?

[mneville]

I will be heading to NC at the end of the month and will be checking out Harrah's Cherokee in the Asheville/Mary Valley area.  I was checking out their website for schedules and noticed that they use PokerPro tables - the ones with the touchscreen - no chips, no cards...

Has anyone played on these types?  I also saw them at Excalibur, but didn't have a chance to sit at them.  It seems that it removes a lot of the live-poker feel - like playing online in a public place.  Without being able to see chip counts, how can you appropriately size bets against smaller stacks?  There's no way a screen can give you all of the information that you can get from watching poeple playing with their chips, card placement, etc.  Are the cards really as "random" or do you see the horrible suckouts and runner-runner BS as online?

What are your opinions on these tables?

[Martini]

...
Are the cards really as "random" or do you see the horrible suckouts and runner-runner BS as online?
...

I would wager a lot of money that PokerPro or online hands are *at least* as random as any live poker games.

As for the tables I believe that the same information that is available in online games (stack sizes, bet amounts, etc.) are also available on the PokerPro tables. The physical chips and cards are part of the poker experience to many players which is why there is not universal acceptance of the electronic tables but I do think they are a good device for low stakes casino poker games where it would be hard to rake enough to make the game economically viable.

[Midnight Rose]

I will be heading to NC at the end of the month and will be checking out Harrah's Cherokee in the Asheville/Mary Valley area.  I was checking out their website for schedules and noticed that they use PokerPro tables - the ones with the touchscreen - no chips, no cards...

Has anyone played on these types?  I also saw them at Excalibur, but didn't have a chance to sit at them.  It seems that it removes a lot of the live-poker feel - like playing online in a public place.  Without being able to see chip counts, how can you appropriately size bets against smaller stacks?  There's no way a screen can give you all of the information that you can get from watching poeple playing with their chips, card placement, etc.  Are the cards really as "random" or do you see the horrible suckouts and runner-runner BS as online?

What are your opinions on these tables?

Quoting myself here:

"I have, and I absolutely, positively loathe them.

I'll repeat the story that I told after I first encountered them at Four Winds Casino in New Buffalo, MI: I snickered when, in the middle of a hand where the entire table was bent over looking at their screens, an old guy looked up and yelled loudly enough that the entire poker room could hear him, "Where's the 'all-in' button?"

I guffawed when one of the tables got the BSOD."

[bigstu]

they used to have 2 of them @ the hard rock in Hollywood. before they took them out the only time they where used was when the table wait was over an hour

[FSL009]

Crown Casino  in Melbourne has them.

I think for lower stakes entry level they are perfect.

As noted above you can see who is at the table (on the computer screen) their money is actully noted on the table screen in front of you or on your screen can not remember.

But you know pretty easily what your playing against.

My only real issue with them at Crown is you can play really well all night and then you get this massive bad beat.

Like they put good hands against better hands.  so just be careful with them, it is very much similar to online in that regards.

Two hands I remember.  I had 44 in early position.  I call, MP raises 3x BB.  Button calls I call given my odds. 

Flop comes down K42  I have a set, So i bet out pot.  knowing it was pretty hidden MP re-raises me and Button folds.  I dont have much left for the call so I shove of course.  he turns over KK for the top set.  And then on the Turn comes the 4 that makes me rich.

A few hands later.  I have KQs and a few people make it to a limped flop I am in the BB and dont want to be re-raised out so I check.   The flop comes down KcKxQc I of course check.  Guy behind bets out, I call.   Turn is 7c,  I check he bets out I checkl-raise him figuring he has made his flush or hoping he has. he shoves.....and he is there like a little puppy dog waiting to see if I call, I call, he goes offering me a hand sorry mate I have the nut flush, as the cards turnover and he realises that he is done for....lol.   he had Ac4c what can I say?

Now i know it happens on live decks,  just seems to be a lot more of that on these tables and the internet to me, now I have no evidence, but let me say I have warned you.

My combat is, once i win decent amount I bank it leave and come back with a starting stack again.  that way i can not lose more than I have on the table.  up to you.

anyway i like them because of flexibility and the characters that you get on them who dont really know what they are doing.  Anyway it is all good unless you want chips in your hands and then they dont work like that.  Obviously in casinos where they dont have them the newer players have to play on normal tables but when these are available they tend to hang out on them as they are normally lower buy ins to sit down.

Crown has them as 50c/$1 NLHE with a $20 minimum. 

Cheers

Have fun.

[Do San]

If you have an itch to play poker and all the live dealer tables are filled, then this is a good alternative.  I've played on them and while it's not bad, it's not the same as the feeling of the chips and cards.

I guess they haven't been doing as well as hoped.  Last time I was in Trump Plaza in AC, they had them.  I went on my first bus trip to AC last weekend, and they were gone.  The room they were in was locked up tighter than a drum.  Just to make sure there was no maintenance thing going on, I asked a security guard, and she said they shut it down a while back.

Guess there is nothing like the real deal.

[OMG_Beavers]

I concur that they would be good for low stakes games, but there is also a reason why they are no longer in Excalibur...

[mneville]

So Excalibur took them out, too?  It was just June when I was there and they were the only tables there that I found.  I guess they weren't all that impressive...

[Squiggly]

From what I understand, they became a hotbed of collusion and cheating since there wasn't a dealer watching every move.

[FSL009]

yeah i would think that as an alternative to a proper table they are worth having in a casino but not as a replacement.

Crown goes well with them but that is because they supplement the live tables for newer players and low stakes players and they are good for wsay a half hour stint as the live tables pay a low rake and time charge these tables just work on rake.

cheers