I have been put off of hosting a tourney with beginners (Rant)

[THE MAN CALLED SPARTACUS]

I don't think I would ever host a game or maybe even play against beginners. Especially the stubborn type. I'm put off for life. No more beginners. I don't want to explain anything ever again. How did you guys do it? How did you get your idiot poker pals to play proper poker, cause I sure as hell can't get through to mine?

[Martini]

I think the way to go about it is to have an established group of players who know how things are done then bring in one beginner at a time so that the new player is immersed in an atmosphere of how things should be run. I think it is easier for a single newbie to be brought in line with a group instead of a single accomplished player trying to bring order to a group of beginners.

[THE MAN CALLED SPARTACUS]

I think the way to go about it is to have an established group of players who know how things are done then bring in one beginner at a time so that the new player is immersed in an atmosphere of how things should be run. I think it is easier for a single newbie to be brought in line with a group instead of a single accomplished player trying to bring order to a group of beginners.

 
What if the whole group started off as beginners together, but someone actually took the initiative to learn the rules and apply it although his mates doesn't want to learn? What then?

[Martini]

I think the way to go about it is to have an established group of players who know how things are done then bring in one beginner at a time so that the new player is immersed in an atmosphere of how things should be run. I think it is easier for a single newbie to be brought in line with a group instead of a single accomplished player trying to bring order to a group of beginners.

 
What if the whole group started off as beginners together, but someone actually took the initiative to learn the rules and apply it although his mates doesn't want to learn? What then?

If his friends are bugging him that much that he doesn't enjoy playing poker with them and he can't change the situation then he should consider not playing with them.

[pman5412]

i have a "game" (and i use the term very loosely) that some buddies from work have once a month. out of the 12 or so that play, 2 or 3 of us actually "play" poker the rest are truly beginners who just want to have fun.
What me and the wifey do is have our "proper" games elsewhere, and when we go there just take lots of alcohol and try to have a good time since we know nothing is really gonna change with that group.

[TooLazy]

I started a game 2 years ago as a poker night with all new beginners.  We've just now gotten to the point where most players check and raise properly, the pot doesn't get splashed, etc.  We still don't handle misdeals (or what we think might be misdeals) right all the time...based on what I've read here.  I can't get anyone to use a cut card...   I guess what I'm trying to say is that don't expect to get everything to a Gobbs level over night or even over the first few games.  If you really want to play with this group and get them to a point where the rules are being followed and its the occasional infraction that you have to deal with then its going to take time.   There are some folks in my game that stopped coming because we had too many rules... they wanted to drink heavy and 'gamble'... if that is most of your group then you probably won't ever change them.

[p5woody]

I started hosting tournaments a couple of years ago.  Here is my advice.

1) Invite a couple of guys that know what they are doing.  This will help a bunch.

2) Keep the buy-in low so nobody gets too upset if somebody makes a mistake.

3) Keep it friendly, just remind them when they make a mistake.  keep in mind not to point out every mistake, only if it impacts play.  I don't worry about the small stuff, you can always bring it up during breaks or when players are knocked out. 

4)  Talk about the rules in general during normal table talk when your not in a hand.  Talk about what you like and don't like about certain rules and why they have those rules.  People will then pick up on things they may not know.

5) I also used to send out a high level rules list when I would send the invite.

I was lucky because I had a few guys that knew the rules and the rest wanted to learn.  I now have a core group of about 16 guys that attend on a regular basis.  I hope this helps and good luck

[KingRichard]

It's going to be difficult turning that ship around quickly, but here's what we did:

I printed out the short and long rules sheets from HPT and had them at each of the first several games.  I also8 had hand rank cards available and posters hanging from the walls.  This got some chuckles for our first game, but you could tell that people were glad I did it.

The "core" group (about 4 of the 15) got together and agreed to follow Roberts Rules as closely as possible.  We also made the decision that we would present the game as following rules mainly to prevent arguments and hard feelings (a very real reason).  Another good explanation for our formality (for the folks who at first just wanted a drunken "fun" game), was that we wanted anyone who plays in our game to be comfortable playing a tourney in a casino.

If the "core" consists of only you, then you'll have to get some of your closest friends in the group together and convince them first.  You can then indirectly encourage the other folks to play better over time.

Once folks play correctly, they realize that it is much MORE fun to play carefully within the constraints of Roberts Rules and standard etiquette (even if you're drunk) than to make stuff up as you go along and piss people off.

[DoUHaveAClue]

What do you mean by "play proper poker"?

Are you referring to splashing the pot; shuffling properly; misdeals; etc., as TooLazy mentioned?

Or do you mean "playing the odds"; or "how do you go all-in with 5-9 off-suit?"

I ask because my bro-in-law will not play with women or newbies because they don't play "properly".  To qoute him. . ."How do I play against someone that calls everything?"

Thanks!

PS:  I was the one to learn the rules, and greatly enjoy teaching others.

[NotFadeAway]

What do you mean by "play proper poker"?

Are you referring to splashing the pot; shuffling properly; misdeals; etc., as TooLazy mentioned?

Or do you mean "playing the odds"; or "how do you go all-in with 5-9 off-suit?"

I ask because my bro-in-law will not play with women or newbies because they don't play "properly".  To qoute him. . ."How do I play against someone that calls everything?"

Thanks!

PS:  I was the one to learn the rules, and greatly enjoy teaching others.

Wow, your brother-in-law sounds like a fish...

[KingRichard]

I stared a poker group about five years ago that's still playing.  Here's what we did (and it seemed to work well).  At the time, I was the only person who had played a live game in a casino.  I was one of three who played online.  This was a group of mostly co-workers (and a few ex-co-workers).  We had about 8 folks in the first game, and most games now have 15-20.

1) We made a conscious effort to use Robert's Rules of Poker and focus on playing in such a way  that our members could move their game seamlessly into a casino and feel comfortable.  This is a good selling point since most folks who will play in a home game hope to play in a casino at some point.  I also printed out the poker etiquette sheets from this an a few other sites so folks could read them before playing.

2) The two bad habits of poker etiquette that were the hardest to fix were string bets and the one chip rule.  We explained them at the beginning of each tourney and they stuck pretty fast.  Folks who've never really played really want to "see that $400 and raise you $1000"... Too many poker movies.

3)  We BOYB but discouraged heavy drinking for the first several games.  Nothing ruins a real poker game more than a drunk jerk.

 

[THE MAN CALLED SPARTACUS]

I stared a poker group about five years ago that's still playing.  Here's what we did (and it seemed to work well).  At the time, I was the only person who had played a live game in a casino.  I was one of three who played on line.  This was a group of mostly co-workers (and a few ex-co-workers).  We had about 8 folks in the first game, and most games now have 15-20.

1) We made a conscious effort to use Robert's Rules of Poker and focus on playing in such a way  that our members could move their game seamlessly into a casino and feel comfortable.  This is a good selling point since most folks who will play in a home game hope to play in a casino at some point.  I also printed out the poker etiquette sheets from this an a few other sites so folks could read them before playing.

2) The two bad habits of poker etiquette that were the hardest to fix were string bets and the one chip rule.  We explained them at the beginning of each tourney and they stuck pretty fast.  Folks who've never really played really want to "see that $400 and raise you $1000"... Too many poker movies.

3)  We BOYB but discouraged heavy drinking for the first several games.  Nothing ruins a real poker game more than a drunk jerk.

 

Looking back two years ago when I originally posted the OP, nothing has changed much in terms of home poker games. I still get frustrated when poker rules are broken and no one else sees something wrong with it. So I hardly play any home poker games anymore. Strictly on line poker rooms. Kudos for getting your group of players to change. I doubt I can get the boneheads I play with to change.

[Nerre]

Two year anniversary for the thread??

If you know the rules, you mostly also know why they are there. That also means that if the group doesn't follow the rules, you can use that to your advantage. (Either to take their money, or to show them why the rules are there. The choice is open:)

[figjam]

What do you mean by "play proper poker"?

Are you referring to splashing the pot; shuffling properly; misdeals; etc., as TooLazy mentioned?

Or do you mean "playing the odds"; or "how do you go all-in with 5-9 off-suit?"

I ask because my bro-in-law will not play with women or newbies because they don't play "properly".  To qoute him. . ."How do I play against someone that calls everything?"

Thanks!

PS:  I was the one to learn the rules, and greatly enjoy teaching others.

Yep.  A few years ago there was a wife of one of the guys who was like this.  I got burned a couple of times trying to bluff into her, but learned really quickly to not do this.

The MAJOR plus side is she will pay you off when you have a made hand.

[Junior]

This is why I have a set of house rules that are handed out to members each season.  They are all my friends, and new guys become my friends usually fairly quickly, but then they have no excuse when the rules say penalties will be applied if those rules aren't followed.  Sometimes you just have to put your foot down when you're hosting the game.  I'm taking the time, buying the product to host (ie; chips; tables; cards; tourney software etc...) so if you can't play poker the way it's supposed to be played at MY tournaments, then i'll find players who do.
You'd be surprised how quickly they change their tone towards rules when you make them sit out for 15 minutes while they still pay blinds.  Especially late in a tournament.  When they bitch, show them the handout you gave them 6 months earlier.  lol, GL with it.