What would you do - a cash game hand with pocket queens

[hizzamhock]

NL holdem online cash game 10 dollar max buyin, blinds 5 and 10 cents.  I have 10 dollars as does opponent in hand.   Opponent in early position raises 3.5 bb in early position making it 35 cents.  He seems like a solid player.  I reraise to 1 dollar.  Opponent reraises two more dollars.  I call.  Flop comes 9h 9d 2h.  Opponent moves all in.  What do you do? Call or fold?

Will post results later

[Midnight Rose]

Ok, so I'm a dumby and asked a question that was answered in the subject line, sorry.  You say "he seems like a solid player", then you reraise him, and just call his re-reraise.  Seems to me like you've answered your own question.  What do you put him on after all the raise/re-raises?  What can you beat that a "solid player" would have in this situation?

[Langham]

I agree with Rose, not a big fan of the re-raise against a "seemingly solid player." Then, with his re-raise, I would definitely have to put him on a top 2 hand.

In this situation, I would trust my read. If I put him on AA or KK pre-flop, I have to fold. Only other hands that make sense with that bet are AK or QQ, but personally, I'm not willing to risk $7 to find out.

[hizzamhock]

Well I put him on aces or kings and folded after the flop.  Turns out he had AK, but played them like aces or kings.  Arrrghh!  It really looked like he had them, though. 
p.s. I hate poker

[Buzzerbeater]

Well I put him on aces or kings and folded after the flop.  Turns out he had AK, but played them like aces or kings.  Arrrghh!  It really looked like he had them, though. 
p.s. I hate poker

Ahh, but now you know that he's willing to play his AK like Aces.  Does he do it often?  Does he do it against anyone or just you?  Knowledge is power.

[dave987654321]

spending hours upon hours grinding the same level I would have called his all in after the flop...otherwise why call his pre flop re raise? you can't justify it to try and hit trips so when no overcards come you have to call IMO

[Martini]

Doesn't matter which of the hands he had. If his range is AA, KK, AK, and even QQ then why go to battle with a pair of Queens? BEST case is he has QQ and you likely get your money back. Next best is a coin flip. But if he has AA or KK you are way behind. You're not ahead of anything so muck 'em.

[Martini]

Also, forgot to mention that if he made it .35 to go in EP I would flat call with Queens and go set mining then milk him for his overpair or the overpair that he is representing if I hit. If the flop comes Queen high I will bet like I have KQ or AQ.

[TwoToGo-Grave]

I agree with Martini here, as I usually do.  However, I don't think that there is anything against three-betting him preflop, although I do see his argument for flat calling the raise.  Of course, if you do reraise here, it's to see if you're crushed as much as anything (as you don't want to stack off on a seven high flop or something because your hand if too strong to fold or something).  A reraise almost certainly means aces, kings, or maybe AK (which I guess he had here, but most wouldn't play the AK so strong), and a call could mean one of those as well.  However, after he four-bets you, you really don't have the the price to set mine, so either reraise or fold here.  You know he'll push the flop (most likely) and you know he'll call if you shove (as he's so clearly pot committed here and has shown such willingness to play this big pot), so either fold or shove pf.  Personally, I'd have to use any reads I have on the guy, and failing that, I don't think you lose too much either way, although I imagine that folding may be more profitable against the range of AA, KK, or AK (even if there are more ways for AK and considering the chips you've already put in; I'm too lazy to actually do the math right now).

[Martini]

QQ against a range of AA, KK, or AK is about a 40/60 dog.

http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/simulate.jsp?g=he&b=&h1=aa%2C+kk%2C+ak&h2=qq&h3=&h4=&h5=

[4 of a kind]

 I would fold if I was in your shoes. His two raises would be a clue to the strength of his hand. If he was bluffing, I wouldn't pay to find out. FOLD

[Midnight Rose]

Someone said something earlier that's been stuck in my craw.  Sorry for the TJ, but if you play aces like aces, and kings like aces, what do you play AK like?  And does it matter if it's suited AK?  And along those same lines, do you play queens like kings?

[Detroitdad]

Someone said something earlier that's been stuck in my craw.  Sorry for the TJ, but if you play aces like aces, and kings like aces, what do you play AK like?  And does it matter if it's suited AK?  And along those same lines, do you play queens like kings?

I sometimes play 4/5 suited like aces

[Midnight Rose]

Someone said something earlier that's been stuck in my craw.  Sorry for the TJ, but if you play aces like aces, and kings like aces, what do you play AK like?  And does it matter if it's suited AK?  And along those same lines, do you play queens like kings?

I sometimes play 4/5 suited like aces

So I've noticed.

[Detroitdad]

It keeps people guessing

[Eralis]

I would probably call his all in. Chances of getting a pocketpair is 5.9%, and than the chances of getting a pocketpair over Q is 2 out of 5.9%, which is to small. And since there were no overcards, your QQ is probably good.

[Midnight Rose]

I would probably call his all in. Chances of getting a pocketpair is 5.9%, and than the chances of getting a pocketpair over Q is 2 out of 5.9%, which is to small. And since there were no overcards, your QQ is probably good.

Maybe it's too early in the morning but...what???

[hockeygoon]

I would probably call his all in. Chances of getting a pocketpair is 5.9%, and than the chances of getting a pocketpair over Q is 2 out of 5.9%, which is to small. And since there were no overcards, your QQ is probably good.

That might be mathematically correct (don't know, I took college algebra in 1994 and never looked at another math book again), but you can't play by just the math, unless you WANT to lose.  Poker is as much about what you think your opponent has as it is about percentages.  I don't think the re-raise was a bad call, but when he went over the top of your re-raise, you have to assume that a solid player has AA, KK, or AK.  Pre-flop, 2/3 of those hands have you massacred, and if he does have AK you're only a 53% favorite. 

If you had him read on AA or KK, you should have folded.  You read on him+the low odds of you hitting one of your 2 outs=FOLD.  That's all the math you need.

And on a flop like that, I'd likely play AK like AA too, figuring you had QQ or maybe AK, but knowing the odds of you hitting AA or KK when I have AK are pretty low, after calling my re-raise.  No way do I put you on 9-x or pocket 9s or 2s.

[Midnight Rose]

And on a flop like that, I'd likely play AK like AA too, figuring you had QQ or maybe AK, but knowing the odds of you hitting AA or KK when I have AK are pretty low, after calling my re-raise.  No way do I put you on 9-x or pocket 9s or 2s.

I agree with you, except this paragraph points out the hole in a solid player's game.  Unfortunately, while the solid player would never (or only under optimal conditions) have played 9-x, pocket 9s or 2s like that, there are far far too many LAGs, maniacs, and draw-chasers that certainly would.  It's the stuff that bad beat stories are made of.

[hockeygoon]

And on a flop like that, I'd likely play AK like AA too, figuring you had QQ or maybe AK, but knowing the odds of you hitting AA or KK when I have AK are pretty low, after calling my re-raise.  No way do I put you on 9-x or pocket 9s or 2s.

I agree with you, except this paragraph points out the hole in a solid player's game.  Unfortunately, while the solid player would never (or only under optimal conditions) have played 9-x, pocket 9s or 2s like that, there are far far too many LAGs, maniacs, and draw-chasers that certainly would.  It's the stuff that bad beat stories are made of.

Yeah, I agree.  I was assuming that I felt the player I was up against was a good player and not a donk who would bet something like A-9 or wired 9s hard.  Normally on-line any pair on the board sends up red flags for me.  I think I'd still bet it hard on the flop, but if he didn't go away I might slow down figuring he played garbage and hit it.